Pinpics Pin Trading : Past Present and Future Presentation at Comiccon

[Disneycollector4994]

Awww let them be at comic con. I dislike thrm too but its good for the pin community

 

[Rasputin]

I have a few thoughts about this, but need to work out how I want to say them before posting. As this a valid conversation about the state of the pin trading community as a whole, AS LONG AS THIS IS KEPT CIVIL AND EVERYONE RESPECTS EVERYONE ELSE'S OPINIONS; I do not see why the thread can not continue.

Wait? What? Someone actually reported this thread?

 

[markheardjr]

I partally blame PinPics for the chaos that has ensued due to people migrating from pinpics trading, DPF and emailing to social media. Once social media took off every tom dick & harry now knows when something is coming and roughly how much they can flip it for to make money off the hobby. Pre-pinpics heads up their butts, people wouldn't even know what was coming on Thursdays at the park, and almost NEVER knew what would be at WDI.

The other problem I have is they took so many good suggestions, that they solicited, and tossed them out the window. I have no idea why. The paid for site previewed at Disneyana, maybe in 2012? is exactly the same now. No improvements in 2 years. It didn't work from the beginning. I don't get it. They want all the focus on grading because they want you to give them $35 for all your expensive pins, for a box of plastic and a sticker in return. They want to milk the hobby for even more. No. If PSA or some other ESTABLISHED company wants to start doing pins, and that is your thing, go for it. But dont' send these people your money.

Side note, I personally have no issues with the actual people behind LANSAM/Pinpics. I just don't get their decision making. If a store is dumb, I just won't go. But Pinpics was the central hub of this massive hobby. Now it's social media, FB/IG. And many many crooks are on those with no way to report or warn people with feedback. Also no moderators filtering most of it. When pinpics went dark, I think maybe only a handfull of people on FB/IG were dealing in hidden mickey's only. Now look at it.

 

[ryanfury]

I've seen a few posts comment about the bugs and not testing of pinpics, which I disagree with. I haven't seen it not work properly. The real problem is much, much worse. That site launched without so much as an attempt to add a single useful feature, and in a few major ways was more difficult to use. As they were upgrading from a late 90's/early 00's site, that was mind bogglingly disappointing. Guys this wasn't bugs. The site worked that way because they deliberately made it that way. That was the day I knew pp truly did not care about the pin trading community or the usefulness of their site. All the shadyness and unnecessary bans were just secondary motivations to look for alternatives.

Did we ever find out why dpf can't link into pp profiles? That was the most astonishing thing to me. I've never heard of someone telling someone not to link into their site. The best guess at the time was that they were trying to make pintalk happen, but has anyone heard anything else?

 

[Disneycollector4994]

Ok I know pinpics has issues but honestly some people are being too hateful to the site and the company
I just dislike the fact they think they make pictures their property and dont fix bugs

 

[matt24256]

I was at comic con and spent some time talking to "Pinpics" and came away from the conversations seeing the other side of the coin. I've voiced my concerns in the past when the switch of ownership was announced and erased many a post joining the witch hunt against them reminding myself it was purchased to function as a business. But after getting the other side of the story I can see that its not a black and white situation. Regardless of how you feel about them, Pinpics having a panel at comic con is a good thing. Any exposure about Disney pins to the public brings in more traders. Having a starting spot to catalog a collection makes the whole process much easier (I started with an excel spreadsheet). The site is the most recognized and helps people figure the whole pin game out. Once they get a grasp and meet some other pin traders, they can find the other avenues of information. Some thoughts from my talks:

They were told by some old timers not to get involved in the drama of the forums. That no matter what they would say, they would get trashed.

When they started the process of retooling the site, the firm they used quoted them a price. Since it's a new site it was all custom. About halfway through the process, the firm said they misquoted them and wanted more money. They work on a budget and it wasn't planned to have to spend thousands more than quoted to complete the job. Now, any programmer that they bring on, has to weed through the custom code that they didn't have a hand in creating. They were also told by some old timers to never let anyone access to the code for the database for fear they might accidently destroy it. So that also handcuffs any programmer in fixing/rebuilding what has been done.

They hear our voices in keeping the old site, and most are on board with it staying. But the ads are on the new site so they want to the traffic to go there. They realize many folks are having trouble with the new site, and since they are having issues getting a programmer to fix them, they are keeping the old site for now.

They realize mistakes have been made, but are unsure on how to rebuild their brand in the pin community.

The grading is meant for high end pins. No one has to use it, its optional. They did say some old timers were given the grading for free for some of their pins to get their feedback. Those pins sold at auction but the users never gave credit to pinpics (which isnt hard to believe, when pinpics has been trashed so hard, its hard to stand up for them and not feel like a red dot is aimed at you).

They don't have a problem with competing database sites, but they felt dpp pulled too much from their site.

Feel free to ask me anything else. Overall, it was nice to get the other side of the story. They are very nice imo. I realize it is a business for them and would rather have it around than go the way of dizpins. Hopefully they keep the old site (maybe make it a choice from from the home page) and mirror the ads (if thats possible). My impression is that they are trying to figure this out, made some mistakes, and are trying to make things right for their business.

 

[2babus]

I realize it is a business for them

Had they built their own business (database) then charged fees to use it, that would be fine. But they took user supplied information (pictures/descriptions) and charged those same users to use their OWN information. I'm a new trader so I'm coming in late in the game... but I think that's really messed up! Please correct me if I'm wrong about this but that's my understanding of the situation.

I don't know about you but if someone is making money off my labor, I expect a paycheck.

 

[hopemax]

It's one thing to have empathy for someone struggling to pull their business together, but at the end of the day, either it has to work, or the business will fail. Whether it's a restaurant, retail store or online pin site. Pinpics has done a terrible job at PR, even towards people that would have continued to use the new site and be valuable to generate word of mouth. And the platform simply does not meet the needs of it's users. Take the trade assistant. Pinpics has a legitimate reason for taking it off of email based, because of the time and problems getting on an ISP's "spam" list. But the new system NEEDED to have all the other features people would want. Like:

1. Contain the email of the trader so people could look up references.
2. When hitting reply, a copy of the original message was saved so people would know what the heck was being traded
3. I would have included a way for people to send Inbox messages to their email, so then they could keep a record for their files. Prompt the person to have a valid email, so there should not be a problem with bounced messages
4. Confirmation that trade requests were sent, something that just got fixed after 10 months of white screens.
5. Some issues with formatting, doesn't have line breaks and there was some confusion with which pin was being requested and offered.
6. Turning it off and on

If the Inbox system worked well, people would grumble about requests not coming to their email, but they'd get over it. They don't because everything else is broken.

And if they have programming issues, that's something they need to get solved. Just like a restaurant can't serve bad food. You can't expect people to eat bad food, and give them the excuse, "our cook doesn't really know how to prepare this meal." They would find themselves closed or bleeding money real quick. Same deal here.

 

[Combatdre]

To me there is nothing innovative about their new site, its just using peoples submitted information and trying to turn it into profit which is where pinpics became shady crooks to me. Since then I have asked them to turn off my account to no avail so I just sent their messages directly to my spam account. So I don't see any requests or anything from them anymore. Besides now a days trading has turned more into a profit/cash value trade as opposed to wants/needs ratio thus social media which is free to use has most information for it. So pinpics is irrelevant at this point.

 

[Rasputin]

They don't have a problem with competing database sites, but they felt dpp pulled too much from their site.

I can see them griping about DPP using PP watermarked pictures and maybe if you stretch reality, the descriptions. EVERYTHING ELSE was user submitted and is not theirs to tell who or what site can use it. THIS is the problem I have with them. They also changed their TOU, don't send an email to ANY USER to let them know that it has been changed (this is underhand and as shady as you can get).

They might be nice people, but their website sucks and it hasn't gotten any better since it first started.

 

[starry_solo]

When they started the process of retooling the site, the firm they used quoted them a price. Since it's a new site it was all custom. About halfway through the process, the firm said they misquoted them and wanted more money. They work on a budget and it wasn't planned to have to spend thousands more than quoted to complete the job. Now, any programmer that they bring on, has to weed through the custom code that they didn't have a hand in creating. They were also told by some old timers to never let anyone access to the code for the database for fear they might accidently destroy it. So that also handcuffs any programmer in fixing/rebuilding what has been done.

They hear our voices in keeping the old site, and most are on board with it staying. But the ads are on the new site so they want to the traffic to go there. They realize many folks are having trouble with the new site, and since they are having issues getting a programmer to fix them, they are keeping the old site for now.

I knew that issue already (about the programmer). They have had multiple programmers trying to fix the new site. They are having issues keeping programmers.

But, here are my thoughts: Instead of trying to fix the broken site that the first programmer screwed up, they probably should do several things: (1) close it down; (2) do a request for proposal and get bids for a brand new site that is user friendly; (3) build a brand new site.

In the RFP, make sure it includes how many ever changes they need each month, etc. as well as tech support. Also, have the programmer create mock-ups of how the site is supposed to look as part of the proposal. And the programmer has to be able to provide them samples of what other websites he/she has built.

For this venture, it seems like it is costing more money to fix the site that the original programmer created. Sometimes, it may be better to throw in the towel, ask for forgiveness, mea culpa, and start all over again.

P.S. If they need the name of a programmer, let me know. One of the non-profits I am on the board of recently had their website redesigned. The programmer (chosen before I got on the board) seems very knowledgeable. He is very quick to respond to inquiries, fix issues we may have, etc.

 

[matt24256]

Had they built their own business (database) then charged fees to use it, that would be fine. But they took user supplied information (pictures/descriptions) and charged those same users to use their OWN information. I'm a new trader so I'm coming in late in the game... but I think that's really messed up! Please correct me if I'm wrong about this but that's my understanding of the situation.

I don't know about you but if someone is making money off my labor, I expect a paycheck.

I don't think they are making a dime at this point. All the information is still there, only (from what I can gather) the hi rez pics can be used by the premium users. The only benefit I can see from the high rez pics is you can use them to list on ebay, but ebay has changed such that they require the users to take their own pics of items now rather than use stock photos. I still use the old site and nothing has changed for me.

 

[matt24256]

I can see them griping about DPP using PP watermarked pictures and maybe if you stretch reality, the descriptions. EVERYTHING ELSE was user submitted and is not theirs to tell who or what site can use it. THIS is the problem I have with them. They also changed their TOU, don't send an email to ANY USER to let them know that it has been changed (this is underhand and as shady as you can get).

They might be nice people, but their website sucks and it hasn't gotten any better since it first started.

I'm not a programmer, but I also thought an issue might of been the ease it was to convert your pinpics pins to dpp pins. It seemed a little too easy to transfer your entire collection with the click of a button. That is my guess. I never got around to trying dpp out to see how it worked. I don't have lots of wants anymore and those I do have are more on the impossible to trade for side (outside of new releases I use only to track what I need to buy) so really only need a database to track my collection, thus dragged my feet to converting to dpp.

 

[docfish2u]

I don't think they are making a dime at this point. All the information is still there, only (from what I can gather) the hi rez pics can be used by the premium users. The only benefit I can see from the high rez pics is you can use them to list on ebay, but ebay has changed such that they require the users to take their own pics of items now rather than use stock photos. I still use the old site and nothing has changed for me.

The fact they are not making a dime is their own fault. If they had done the site correctly to begin with and made sure everything worked before opening it they would be making money at this point. The fact they are listening to "old timers" (maybe they should find some different people to listen to since they are failing so badly now) means they didn't have a clue when they bought into this. Everybody makes mistakes. It is what you do after the mistake. The owners of pinpics have shown they have no idea on what to do and they have proven that every step of the way. What they have done is help divide a community that was thriving before they got into it and screw up what was a well working website. They have also put a major amount of mistrust of themselves into the community they want to make money off of. Doesn't sound like a sound business model to me.

 

[Disneycollector4994]

Instead of complaining here , why not send them a message through pinpics

 

[Rasputin]

Instead of complaining here , why not send them a message through pinpics

Evidently you have never tried to talk to anyone there. It's like posting on their forum, if its not all rainbows and unicorns you get banned and your account terminated.
Here at least you can have a discussion, post the negative things and not feel like your every word is being monitored.

Plus there are enough PP people who read this forum.

 

[Molly]

I haven't read all the comments yet but I will lol. The PP panel was on the last day at virtually the last hour of the convention and is notoriously the emptiest day of the convention...also the cheapest lol! I would literally rather sit through hours of dental work before I would spend 5 minutes listening to the PP staff/supporters yammer on about how they are the alpha and omega of pin trading, they're not btw. The room they purchased was one of the smallest available and the lack of photos showing the crowd would lead me to believe it wasnt well attended. Like Darris I surely would have been invited to F off if I had shown up for the panel with our standard list of unanswered questions for the "experts" and PP owners/presidents etc lol.

PP was created by us, the collecting community based on the belief and understanding that it would never be a "business" that could be or would be sold off. The people behind PP are infamous and some have very public and very skethcy criminal records. They saw what they thought was an opportunity (much like the DSF crews) to make easy money from fanatical collectors...they were wrong for so many reasons and the continued tough guy approach only drives more of us away each day.

This is has been discussed adnausem and the reasons that PINPICS SUCKS is an ever growing list. Ultimately there will be another database created by the community that will be used the way PP was set up to be, it won't be a money making enterprise and won't be run by megalomaniacs that think they control the pin universe. This is not an if, it's a when and the end game of all of this will be PP out of business and merely a bad memory.

 

[ColbyTrio]

With such a large community, I bet there are web designers and programmers amongst us that would love an opportunity to help redesign the site. This would accomplish two things:
1. It could resolve the technical issues with the site.
2. It could help reestablish their name within the community. Which would lead to additional web traffic increasing their advertisement revenue.

 

[WDWnorm]

With such a large community, I bet there are web designers and programmers amongst us that would love an opportunity to help redesign the site. This would accomplish two things:
1. It could resolve the technical issues with the site.
2. It could help reestablish their name within the community. Which would lead to additional web traffic increasing their advertisement revenue.

This would make a lot of sense.

 

[Rasputin]

With such a large community, I bet there are web designers and programmers amongst us that would love an opportunity to help redesign the site. This would accomplish two things:
1. It could resolve the technical issues with the site.
2. It could help reestablish their name within the community. Which would lead to additional web traffic increasing their advertisement revenue.

The problem is they have pissed off people who have the time and expertise that would have volunteered to help them.

Plus who wants to donate time to a site that charges for user generated content?

 

[unibear]

With such a large community, I bet there are web designers and programmers amongst us that would love an opportunity to help redesign the site. This would accomplish two things:
1. It could resolve the technical issues with the site.
2. It could help reestablish their name within the community. Which would lead to additional web traffic increasing their advertisement revenue.

This would have worked better before they drove Ethan (and DPP) out of town on a rail. Given that particular treatment, I find it difficult to think that other programmers would volunteer their time to help pp.

 

[ColbyTrio]

This would have worked better before they drove Ethan (and DPP) out of town on a rail. Given that particular treatment, I find it difficult to think that other programmers would volunteer their time to help pp.

Nothing a little money and recognition wouldn't solve.

 

[Rasputin]

Nothing a little money and recognition wouldn't solve.

Sometimes principal is more important than money and recognition.

 

[WDWnorm]

Sometimes principal is more important than money and recognition.

Sometimes people learn from their mistakes.

 

[kswiz]

Is there anywhere with a quick rundown on PinPics and why it is regarded the way it is? Would appreciate it, thanks

disneypinadventures: I just started reading this forum again. This thread should help: http://disneypinforum.com/showthread.php?47961-ATTENTION-Disney-Pin-Place-is-now-owned-by-PinPics