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Please help me understand

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Please help me understand

Tbird

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I'm having a hard time trying to understand the auctions from this site. What I'm having a hard time with is the value of the pin that is being auctioned compared to the value of the pins that are being offered. What I mean by this is you have a pin that is being auctioned off and people are bidding pins (sometimes several pins) for it that have a trades/wants ratio that are 2 to 3 times better then the pin being auctioned. Now I know that the trades/wants ratio isn't everything in terms of an equal trade but to me it does mean allot.

I will give an example of what I mean. There is a jumbo Ariel pin up for auction right now (a very nice pin in my opinion) that is a LE of 200 and has 20 people trading and 98 people wanting.
There are bids out there right now for that pin that have multiple pins (3 to 4 pins) that are LE pins of 300 to 400 and each of the pins have a wants of anywhere between double to triple of the pin that is being auctioned.

Now maybe I am looking at this the wrong way but to me they are giving away multiple higher valued pins for one pin that is still a very good pin but still not as valuable as the pins being offered.

Now remember, this is just the way I am seeing this and I could be completely wrong with the way I am looking at the values and if I am wrong then I would love to have someone try and explain it to me so I can understand what I am doing wrong value wise.

(And please, to the person that has the pin up for auction right now I mean no disrespect. The Ariel pin is really a beautiful pin and I would love to have it myself. I'm just trying to figure out the values of all these pins so I can offer the proper pins whenever I make a bid)
 
It really is about what someone personally values it.

Although the ratio's may be way off, Ariel collectors will want it more than say, some of their more better pins they have, that they don't collect.

It depends on what people want, is all.



Vicki
 

I agree it's really more to do with personal choice and the way that person views there pins, they might like the auctioned pin better than those they own already
 
I do understand those points but why give up so many good traders (3 to 4 pins) for just one pin? That's what I don't understand.
 
It's a jumbo pin, they cost more to start with therefore the monetary value is probably as high as the pins mentioned. Plus just because someone wants a pin it may mean they would swap for it if they saw in on a lanyard but were not that fussed about it. The pin you mention looks very much like if you wanted it it would probably be on your most wanted or holy grail lists.
 
Tbird said:
I do understand those points but why give up so many good traders (3 to 4 pins) for just one pin? That's what I don't understand.
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Sometimes it is the "thrill of the hunt" where a bidder has to win at all cost, so they offer more than others may feel it is worth so no one counterbids. Also, some single pins are sometimes worth 3-4 good pins, plus you also have to look at what might be vested in the bids being placed. For those bidding pins that others might think are "good" or "high value", if the bidder got them at cost, it might not be that high a bid in the bidder's point of view
 

Now this does make some more sense to me. Sometimes I just think "Man I would give my right arm for some of the pins they are offering over the pin that they will be receiving" (not saying that the pin they will be receiving is a bad pin)
 
I don't understand it either. That is why I stay away from the auctions. With no disrespect to anyone, It seems like a perfect way to take advantage and score a lot more pins than what is deserved. Just my opinion of course.
 
Suzziesue said:
I don't understand it either. That is why I stay away from the auctions. With no disrespect to anyone, It seems like a perfect way to take advantage and score a lot more pins than what is deserved. Just my opinion of course.
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Sometimes yes, it does seem like that, but like with E-Bay and everything else similar, no one is forcing anyone to bid to begin with, and what to bid. There have been a few pins that flew under people's radars and were won for very small bids compared to the item being auctioned. The best rule of thumb I can recommend is do not be afraid to walk away if you think the bid is too high.
 
I don't really use the auctions section to bid on pins. It seems people are always overbidding. I'm not sure if its just because its their friend or if people are in-cahoots to see how how they could get someone else to bid? Like shilling. All I know is when I run an auction only 3 people maybe bid and then the bids aren't way over the top excessive. But I must say I've been surprised a few times when people bid something I think is really really good on my auctions too.

I'm with you though, when someone bids $250 worth of pins for a pin selling for $150 on eBay it seems weird. I'd like to say they enjoy "trading" better because they could simply sell all those pins and buy their pin and have extra left over.
 

You make a very good point "to high then just walk away"

I'm with you though, when someone bids $250 worth of pins for a pin selling for $150 on eBay it seems weird. I'd like to say they enjoy "trading" better because they could simply sell all those pins and buy their pin and have extra left over.
Click to expand...

This is also a good point - buy the one on Ebay and sell the others and keep the extra money or use the extra money to buy another pin or two that you really want.
 
People just bid what they're happy to bid (or sometimes not happy to bid if they reeeeeally want the pin being auctioned). Its just the same with a regular auction... people will bid prices higher than the item's worth because everyone wants the item, and they're trying to out-do each other.
 
I bid on auctions when something I really like pops up, but I usually get outbid.

Even though I *think* I am offering something equal value-wise, for some reason people tend to overbid (value-wise) in auctions and I can't justify doing that.

It was always strange to me that a person could sell the pin(s) they are bidding and just purchase the pin they want for less (sometimes WAY less)...but maybe they just REALLY want the pin and get caught up in wanting to win the auction?

I remember an auction where someone was auctioning off a Snow White PODM (really good scene with Snow White in frame). The winner bid a LE100 Ariel and Eric Gomes (the Ariel and Flounder Gomes sold a few months ago for over $400, and I would argue that this pin is MORE sought after), AND the Art of Ariel boxed pin (sells for around $200). Thats like bidding $600-$700 value in pins for a LE2000 pin that would probably sell for around $250-$300. That just blew my mind. (And no offense to the bidder if they read this...I am just using this example because it stuck out in my mind as an example of what I would personally consider overbidding.)
 

You make a very good point also. I guess it's just me, I don't have a ton of really "High Valued" pins on my trades list and the ones that I do have I want to use them to trade for something of equal value.
 
Tbird said:
You make a very good point also. I guess it's just me, I don't have a ton of really "High Valued" pins on my trades list and the ones that I do have I want to use them to trade for something of equal value.
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Me either, so I don't often bid on the auctions. In fact my trader list is pretty desolate at the moment. I too would rather trade a pin for an equal pin... unless of course the auction was for a pin I reeeeeeeally want.
 
the trade auctions on this site are about personal value. the example you use is for a "grail" item, that pin, even though it is new, is a HOT pin, and $ value is astronomical right now. For some people the only way to afford it is via the trade auction. and when multiple people WANT a pin that baddly, they will "over bid" to try and win. Actual monetary value or trade/want ratio's really dont come into it except as factors for the auctioneer to review when deciding which bid they like the most.

With more standard pins, ones with decent t/w and decent values, that are not "grail" status in the community... The auction is MUCH more balanced. But Grail type pin auctions end up being very favorable to the auctioneer, and folks give up much more to get that pin.
 
I have held 2 auctions on this site for not "grail worthy" pins and have gotten very fair bids. It seems like the grail auctions are the ones where you unload a truck of awesome pins for the auctioneer! I personally can't really compete in that type of auction but I guess if you can and you feel what you are bidding is fair and justified, more power to you. They are entertaining to watch sometimes!
 
for example...pbs10--I would totally overbid on his Ariel Jumbo pin because he is an awesome person! I would gladly overbid on a trader's auction who traded me easily or had shown kindness in the community before. Sometimes it isn't about value for value. But if you feel the bid is too high--then move on to eBay, if it is strictly about cost. I don't think there is any particular rule or way to go about it. Bid what you can and what you are willing to.
 

Really, all of this.

If you don't have money to buy your grail on ebay, but you do have pins you can bid, sometimes that's worth it to you!

If you just like winning, or you like the excitement, sometimes that's worth it to you, too. (Then you're paying for entertainment as much as for a pin, imo.)

Really, a good trade is any trade that both sides are happy with, and as has been said, nobody is forcing anybody to bid.
 

That's a very good point also.
I guess it just comes down to, if you really want the pin you bid what you are willing to give up for the pin. Unfortunately I don't live anywhere near the parks and I don't have easy access to get pins at cost so I get pins from either Ebay or by trading and you can't get high value pins that way with out paying out your butt. So if I'm going to pay allot for a pin I normally will get one that I want to keep and not trade away.
 
When a new pin comes out the resellers sometimes jack the prices really high. The cheapest price I have seen the new Jumbo Little Mermaid surprise pin is $155.00. Right now how things are going some people dont have a lot of money so its hard to pay that price but if they have been collecting for awhile they have a lot of pins they could bid for it in a trade auction. Others just like to bid in auctions, I am one of them when I have the pins idk I think its just fun lol and it doesnt bother me if I trade a little higher value of pins for a pin as along as both I really want that pin and both traders are happy.
 
I agree with the belief that a pins value lies in what the buyer/bidder is willing to pay or bid but I also know that in nearly every arena if you are bartering/trading for something instead of paying cash you will usually find that the price is higher for a trade/barter than it is for cash and it makes perfect sense. Most people prefer cash and if they are going to forgo it in favor of a trade/barter they expect a higher price. Most people have something to trade/barter but not everyone has the cash to buy something straight out. There are a lot of members here that have been collecting for years and paid retail for the majority of their pins so something that a newer collector sees as having a higher ebay price is not what the owner feels its value is. There are a LOT of collectors that do not sell on ebay and prefer to keep their pins to make trades.

That is the way that I see it. Unfortunately I have seen some great pins go for near to nothing and some so so pins go for outrageous bids, again that is how those gambles shake out and not everyone thinks every pin has the same value. I rarely check auctions as more often then not I simply cannot compete with the bids but every once in awhile I am able to get a great pin and not have to pay cash for it!

 
I know of 2 trade auctions going on for the Surprise pin right now; one of which is for the entire DSF set and the other is for the surprise pin only. I am currently the winning bidder for the trade auction for the Ariel Surprise pin only. I bid 2 pins for the auction: the UK Young Tiana & Charlotte pin as well as the Jumbo Giselle and Edward pin.

There are a few things I consider when trading for a wanted pin: ratios, value (retail as well as current auction value), condition, appeal and desirability. Although I know the Young Tiana and Charlotte pin is extremely sought after its not exactly a "grail" of mine; maybe at one point I had considered it as such, but trying to consolidate my collection lately has made me realize I don't have much room for a "Princess and the Frog" collection anymore (although I'm definitely keep my Facilier pins lol).

I didn't get either of my pins being offered at cost; I paid well over retail for each other them. To me it doesn't seem that bad of a trade though as I'm offer a LE 500 Jumbo that features 2 characters for an LE 200 jumbo that features 3 characters and to preserve my winning bid I threw in an LE 150 rare PATF pin. I've seen lots of people over bid and offer 4 or 5 or even 6 pins for one. It's more feasible for me to be able to trade 2 pins for this jumbo where I can save myself the $150-200 its going for. Hopefully I won't get outbid, but there's not much more I'd personally add to the trade at this point. I figured I better get my top bid in now, since the sites keep crashing, and if I win great!
 
For me it is much easier to bid "higher value" pins then it is to pay cash out of my pocket. I would never spend more then 50 dollars cash on a pin, but there are several times I have bid several hundred dollars in pins. For some reason in my mind it is just different. Plus it is the thrill of the hunt.
 
Pin values are very subjective and as others have already said. I have been on both sides of the auctions as a bidder and auctioneer and have (well in my opinion anyway) never "over bid" for a pin that I wanted. Others have said that I do tend to over bid, and maybe I do:dunno: but heres the thing....... as long as I don't feel ripped off in the end I feel like I did good.

A lot of people have said that I over bid on a Snow White PODM and it was even mentioned here so I will explain it so you can see why I valued that particular pin so high. I bid on a PODM "Grail scene" the pin is a LE 2000 and $value of about 450.00 I bid a Little Mermaid Gomes and Art of Ariel about $value of 650.00 .... so a 200.00 over bid is what most people see when they go by $value alone but I did not pay the top dollar for either of the pins I bid and they don't fit with my collections so I feel I did well AND this particular pin was one that I couldn't afford to lose, The PODM that I won helped me to get my ULTIMATE GRAIL the Japan classics Rapunzel, so the way I see it is I traded a Gomes and a Art of Ariel and got a pin I NEVER thought I would own. Now with that being said if I were to put up my Snow PODM (from my collection, grail scene 400.00) would I expect to get 650.00 worth of pins for it? Umm...Nope!

My best advice for bidding on auctions is...set a limit, decide how much the pin is worth to YOU not how much its $value is but what you would be willing to give up for it, if it gets to be to much back off ( I have found that if I start second guessing, or doing the "I don't know" face that it is getting to high and I will stop bidding), there will always be another pin sooner or later.
 
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