What is "Hype", and reselling VS profiteering.

[Psycho Pixie]

Topic is about pin releases and such, so I thought discussion was the best place for it, MODs feel free to move to anything goes if you think otherwise.

I think we as a community need to discuss what "hyping" a pin or release really is, and what it can do to the hobby. I also want to touch on "reselling" VS "profiteer reselling."

So I know this might be an emotional discussion.
The ONLY thing I ask is that we keep it civil.
NO finger pointing or calling out of specific people. ​

I will start with admitting that on occasion I may have said or done something that DOES hype a release. We ALL love to talk about a set, pin or series. This is NORMAL, it is exciting to know a pin is coming out that matches your collection, or will be an exceptional trader. To discuss it is not "hyping" it. There is no reason we as a pin community should not enjoy discussing pins before they release. however, certain things said or stated can come across as hype, and may harm the community or cause undue excitement. And there are also times that people say or do something as a joke, but which causes a "panic" situation.

Examples of "hyping" a release *DSF releases as examples*:

• "Is everyone lining up 3 days prior for this?"
• "When do we start the campout?"
• The above examples in a thread 3 WEEKS prior to release date. :lol:
• "This release will be nuts! I am bringing 5 friends to make sure i get a set!"
• "OMG I bet there will be a surprise release!"
• speculation of surprise release such as suggestion of a BT....

There are ways to make a comment such as the examples above without causing a hyped up, panic induced, reaction. There are also times when comments such as those examples are actually TRUE statements... take for Example the BT series. YES, it is true it was going to be a rather crazy release. However if so much hype had not occurred the police might not have had to be involved. Do you see what I mean?

Resellers and profiteers..... As a so cal pin trader, i DO understand that we have a kind of monopoly on the really good pins, with DSF, WDI, DLR, D23 expos and pixar studio's in our backyards. I also understand that it makes it very tempting to turn into a total profiteer reseller. I struggle with it prior to every release. "Do I resell at my slightly lower prices to DPF friends or turn the profit on eBay?"

It's a very hard choice, deciding between helping out friends, or turning a bigger profit for myself. That extra $10-20 can pay for a pin for my collection, or lego's for my kids or a new pair of shoes... I consider myself a very kind and generous person, I try valiantly to help out my fellow dpf people. However occasionally a release comes along that I cannot pass up on for a bit more profit. Why would I sell a Marquee here for $30 when it is selling for an average of $60+ right out the gate, or higher 2 months down the road?? Is that fair to me to undersell the market? If people are willing to pay those prices, doesn't that mean the pin is "worth" that amount? And the bigger question is, by underselling the market, am I potentially harming the future value *trade or monetary* down the road?

So now that my personal opinions/feelings are on the table.... lets discuss it.

• What do you think is best for the community?
• Where do you draw the line?
• At what point do you think its goes from discussion to hype?
• And at what point does a person go from a reseller to a profiteer?

*and yes, it is ok if you think I am a profiteer, or if you disagree with my opinion. I wont get mad.*

 

[markheardjr]

I think there are multiple kinds of sellers. Selling pins isn't bad. Everyone is entitled to do what they want with their own property. Even in quantity if the price is about going rate then I don't see anything wrong. Often trading takes a backseat and someone trading for a pin will scrutinize you valuation so it just makes sense to sell a pin. But sometimes you can trade it for a better pin. I always try to trade before I sell. I probably lose profit by holding a pin for a while to trade it rather than strike while the iron is hot as many do. But I don't need the money and I don't do pin trading for money.

1. The person that sells a few pins from time to time. Maybe to thin their trader pool that has gone stagnant with request responses. Or maybe a pin they've had for a while suddenly jumps way up in value. Maybe they are selling extras from a mystery set for the ones they didn't need/want. If it weren't for these people, often times older pins would be near impossible to acquire. As often they aren't able to be traded for or they are all in collections. I would add to this category are the people that are quitting the hobby and just offloading all their pins.

2. Someone that sells from time to time, the day/week of the sale, to earn a profit, usually to use the money to pay for their set or pay for another pin they've been eyeing. Maybe to cash in quick on a surprise release they don't want. I think most are in this category. Usually these people are friendly, it's not ALL about the money, but the money is always there in their mind. They probably still do some trading, using sold price for valuation.

3. The person that goes to almost every release and sells probably 50-75% of their pins and only keeps a few for their main collection. If they collect at all. The opportunists that just can't pass up knowing a pin will be a $80 pin, even if they don't want it, just to get it and sell it. They are harder to trade with but they probably bring some decent pins with them just in case they can make a good trade.

4. A profiteer who is at every release just to get the pin that will sell for profit and use the money for their daily life. It's income. It's their part-time job. They bring family or friends to get more if they can. They RARELY have pins with them to trade, and if they do they are looking to trade older pins they couldn't sell to newer collectors for the high value pin they were there to buy in the first place.

5. Presellers that are doing it to get money to buy the pin they want ahead of time. Maybe a continuation of #4, or a stepping stone to #6. I'm not too keen on this either. People presell a set, get paid double what it's worth and then use the money to fund their own pin purchase. The difference comes when the release is a pin they don't want, they still presell the pins but then sell double the amount and not keep one, which leads to #6.

6. The profiteering preseller, the person that lists a pin before it's even sold. This creates super hype, it shows the masses how much a pin they could go and obtain could be worth. It also is sketchy because these days everyone knows pins are not guaranteed. I think this type of seller often goes beyond just waiting in line to being rude, cheat/lying to CM's, cutting, maybe even stealing to get as many pins as possible. They want to set the market price of a pin, they want to be the first to list a pin for sale.

*. I'm adding this, maybe some won't like it but oh well. The for-profit-auctioner. DPF auctions have become a place to run over and list that brand new pin to see how high someone will bid. Often times the bids placed FAR exceed the value of the pin being offered. But it seems the first to strike with a new hot pin gets more in value of pins bid than the pin would have sold for. The Auction house gets muddy with friends bidding overboard for friend.

 

[JayLeeJay]

I don't think a certain type of statement can be labeled as "hype". People will interpret statements differently. Something that is hype to one could be the exact opposite to another. I think the same is true with reselling vs. going for a profit. They exist on a continuum and to draw lines that don't necessarily exist is only going to cause problems one way or another. There will always be things that people who share a hobby will disagree on. I think its best to agree to disagree and move on. Not everyone will always be happy and that is okay.

 

[MrsTheKing]

I sell pins to "thin the herd". I decided I don't want to collect Stitch anymore, so I sold off 80% of that collection. Or when I decided that I only want pins with Chip & Dale together, not separately. I've never bought a pin with the intention of selling it, nor do I buy a pin because it's a good trader. I don't have good enough judgment where that's concerned. If I had the opportunity and knowledge, I probably would buy an additional pin and resell it, starting the auction at what I paid for it. But that's just me.

 

[gothel]

Since I live in the UK where there are not many pin releases I tend to buy from people on the forums or on ebay but the prices add up quite a bit since everyone is selling to make a profit. I don't mind paying a bit extra but sometimes the prices are doubled, I wish I could just cut out the middle man and life in California I think it's good that there are some pins that are worth so much money and are so 'hyped' as it makes the hobby more interesting and more rewarding if you manage to get your hands on one of these pins.

 

[Ozzie1988]

Excitement can be mistaken by hype, you are hyped up about a release why not share your excitement? We as adults should be able to act on our own judgment and not let a comment spark panic. as for the BT's the cops where involved for another reason.... They didn't want to stay. He said he had better things that to deal with this so only one cop stayed. Also I just can't wrap my head around anti or restricted sellers. The person was there got the item and it is now legally his/hers to do as he/she pleases. If they want to sell it at cost that great if they want to mark it up at 10x the cost that great no one is forcing a buyer to buy said pin at that cost, NO ONE. Ever thing in life has a reseller even the original seller Disney purchased the pin from a fabricator than they marked it up to resell to us. We don't know the original cost per pin it could be .99 or 5$ we don't know 100% of the time. Everyone has a right to to as they please in life and we must respect one another and let them.

 

[Rocke01]

I think if the people stand in line to get the pins they have the right to do what they want with them period. It is not our place to judge and you don't know their situation.

I have been running games and auctions for a while now in an effort to catch up with life, pay some bills and be able to get our passes for one more year of Disneyland bliss. I use to have expendable cash but I am disabled now, living on a fixed income, and I still have the same bills! I have heard that there are some that think I am one of these people who are in it just to make money. Nothing could be further from the truth. We have slowly been selling our collection to survive. Everyone has to do what they have to do in this world to make ends meet. We cherished our collection and at one time had literally thousands of pins. We have probably sold thousands and still probably have thousands left. We didn't get anything at a great price and in many cases paid a marked up price when we bought them if we were not able to make it to the park to buy them.

The pins we collected over the years have been our saving grace. They have paid bills when we needed it, put food on the table, even bought tires for our truck. Without our collection that we accumulated over years and years of collecting we would have gone under years ago. I am not asking for pity but for understanding. We do not make it to California like we did at one time so we have little opportunity to buy new releases anymore even if we had the money to do it. Yes, I know that some people buy pins simply for profit and nothing more but I sure didn't see anyone offering the Disney Couples D23 pins at cost to anyone on here. Everyone does what they have to to be able to afford this expensive hobby and I do not think anyone should be judged for it. (Especially if you have ever sold a pin at above cost. We have probably all done it at some time or another.)

Stepping down from my soap box now.

 

[KT07]

It is not our place to judge and you don't know their situation.

Everyone has to do what they have to do in this world to make ends meet.

Everyone does what they have to to be able to afford this expensive hobby and I do not think anyone should be judged for it. (Especially if you have ever sold a pin at above cost. We have probably all done it at some time or another.)

The trouble comes when people start to use that "everyone" word. Its not true and its just a way for people to make a excuse or show what they do is justified. IMHO there are other hobbies that you can make much more money doing. And the plus is that they are not Disney. I think part of the trouble is that this is a Disney hobby and as such many of us feel that is not the same as any old run of the mill hobby. Go buy sport tickets. Shoot you could even go to Home depot and buy light bulbs with a PG&E rebate that lets u buy for less than they are made for. A few years back a buddy of mine was buying lights for 8 bucks and we called the maker to try and buy more. They said its $12 if we buy from them. So needless to say. We drove to all the costcos in cali and bought all the bulbs each store had. Go Buy base ball cards. You can spend less money and time than pins and make thousands more.

In the end Yes its up to each of us to do what we will do. But the true sign of integrity is what you do when people don't see. Sad cuz even when we all see people ripping each other off around this hobby, we get a story of why it was ok to do. Everyone is doing it... I didn't make them buy it.... I have bills... list can go on forever. the end point is that no not everyone is doing it. and no matter what you say. there is no way to make it ok to disrespect Walt and his vision of Disney happiness. If u need money so bad. get a new hobby. don't mess this one up for all the honest people. oh.. and no I never have done it. so that's that. sorry ahead of time that people don't like the truth. guess that's why people always say. " The Truth Hurts"

 

[Diablo]

Light bulbs?

:dunno:

 

[KT07]

just a example of other things people can buy and resale. The bulbs are CF bulbs. PG&E gives a kick back or rebate to the stores that sell them cheep. The ones I was talking about are $25 bucks at full price. Whole sale was $12 if u buy a seatrain worth. He would buy them at Costco for $8 bucks each. Than my friend would just resell the lights for $16-20 bucks each. So quick double up of his money. There is no limit to what you can buy. So just had to drive around and buy out each store. The point is there is other things to buy cheep and resell for a profit. If you need a side job.. Don't do it in a Disney hobby. Thanks. again sorry to offend anyone. Although I am sure mostly the people with this side job or need. are the people upset at me telling the truth.

 

[Psycho Pixie]

I think if the people stand in line to get the pins they have the right to do what they want with them period. It is not our place to judge and you don't know their situation.

I have been running games and auctions for a while now in an effort to catch up with life, pay some bills and be able to get our passes for one more year of Disneyland bliss. I use to have expendable cash but I am disabled now, living on a fixed income, and I still have the same bills! I have heard that there are some that think I am one of these people who are in it just to make money. Nothing could be further from the truth. We have slowly been selling our collection to survive. Everyone has to do what they have to do in this world to make ends meet. We cherished our collection and at one time had literally thousands of pins. We have probably sold thousands and still probably have thousands left. We didn't get anything at a great price and in many cases paid a marked up price when we bought them if we were not able to make it to the park to buy them.

The pins we collected over the years have been our saving grace. They have paid bills when we needed it, put food on the table, even bought tires for our truck. Without our collection that we accumulated over years and years of collecting we would have gone under years ago. I am not asking for pity but for understanding. We do not make it to California like we did at one time so we have little opportunity to buy new releases anymore even if we had the money to do it. Yes, I know that some people buy pins simply for profit and nothing more but I sure didn't see anyone offering the Disney Couples D23 pins at cost to anyone on here. Everyone does what they have to to be able to afford this expensive hobby and I do not think anyone should be judged for it. (Especially if you have ever sold a pin at above cost. We have probably all done it at some time or another.)

Stepping down from my soap box now.

+100! My concern and the reason i posted the section about reselling and profiteering was precisely for people like you, and me. My tangled collection being sold paid our bills during our hard times. I see many many folks in the hobby out there who are decent good humans and they are being lumped in with the profiteer resellers when the topic comes up, simply because they sold their pins at the going rate.

"resellers" is a bad word in the hobby. And it should not be. We need a new term for those who sell ONLY and are not in the hobby at all. Would Scalpers work? or is that a different definition?

 

[starry_solo]

Kristine - you may want to fix your link to the CHOC Walk 2013:

http://choc.convio.net/site/TR/Events/General?team_id=1444&pg=team&fr_id=1040

 

[Rocke01]

The trouble comes when people start to use that "everyone" word. Its not true and its just a way for people to make a excuse or show what they do is justified. IMHO there are other hobbies that you can make much more money doing. And the plus is that they are not Disney. I think part of the trouble is that this is a Disney hobby and as such many of us feel that is not the same as any old run of the mill hobby. Go buy sport tickets. Shoot you could even go to Home depot and buy light bulbs with a PG&E rebate that lets u buy for less than they are made for. A few years back a buddy of mine was buying lights for 8 bucks and we called the maker to try and buy more. They said its $12 if we buy from them. So needless to say. We drove to all the costcos in cali and bought all the bulbs each store had. Go Buy base ball cards. You can spend less money and time than pins and make thousands more.

In the end Yes its up to each of us to do what we will do. But the true sign of integrity is what you do when people don't see. Sad cuz even when we all see people ripping each other off around this hobby, we get a story of why it was ok to do. Everyone is doing it... I didn't make them buy it.... I have bills... list can go on forever. the end point is that no not everyone is doing it. and no matter what you say. there is no way to make it ok to disrespect Walt and his vision of Disney happiness. If u need money so bad. get a new hobby. don't mess this one up for all the honest people. oh.. and no I never have done it. so that's that. sorry ahead of time that people don't like the truth. guess that's why people always say. " The Truth Hurts"

Everyone has a right to their own opinion as do you. I guess if I had the money to invest in something I would not have to sell my treasured collection bit by bit to make ends meet. But the simple fact is, I have to sell something and pins are not something that is needed to survive. I don't know when this became about me but I guess when I used myself as an example I opened that door. So be it. You can believe what you want, it is your right. I do not use or abuse pins. I do not buy and then resell to make money. I sell what I have had and treasured for years to survive, many times losing money. My integrity is my most prized possession and if you asked anyone that knows me in person they would tell you that! I found it both funny and odd that you chose to use that word. You have chosen to judge me for using a word like everyone? Here I thought only God should judge...

 

[KT07]

PM has been sent... Pixie. Reseller is the right word and yes its a bad one. But rest assure that you and Rocke are not in that group. You are both Collectors or traders.. Im not sure witch one. But not reseller. Collectors and traders have been know to sell sum thing in a time of need. That's very different than buying pins as a side biz. Let me also say sorry here in front of everyone to Rocke. I didn't mean to say you are a bad person or what not. I just wanted to show the word Everyone gets thrown around a lot around here. But its not true now or ever. Not everyone has done it.

PS. im a stay at home dad and would love to have extra money from time to time. But I would never never do it on the back of my beloved hobby. shoot even if I wanted to sell my pins. I would base my price of what I paid. not what someone else has ripped people off for. Just cus some people are overcharging..... dose not mean that Everyone has to over charge. Hope that comes across more clear and less like a attack.

again im sorry and would never try to hurt your feelings. good luck to you and hope things get better for you soon.

 

[AndyM]

I'm a collector, a trader and a reseller. Reseller is only a bad word to the people local that can buy pins themselves. Collectors and traders that live too far to buy themselves, generally don't think of resellers as bad because how else would they get the pins?

 

[markheardjr]

Scalpers conveys the meaning but seems too close to scrappers and may confuse people. That's why I use profiteer. They are only in it for the profit. Not to sell old pins they've held on to during harder times. Although, some sellers are smart and hold pins knowing they will become very valuable in the long run.

 

[TiggerNut]

Ah yes..the 'ol stereotypes...

I think if you have been in pin as long as Rocke01 and I, you eventually fit every category at some point. You start off buying the world...collect like crazy..then thin it out..sell some to justify the purchases...and then sometime use it for income (especially when there is a lull in your particular character).

I think there is a difference between a reseller who just sells to sell and a collector: who sells but also LOVES the hobby. I know that most of the top Ebay sellers do not even collect pins. You ask them questions about their favorite Disney movie..and they haven't seen any of them....they have no grails and do not know what it feels like to hunt for something special.

Look, I wear several hats in this list....and there is also the possibility..like in my world: that one has found a business doing what they love...which is the ideal in most peoples' worlds.

Just my two cents...

Diana

 

[KT07]

not sure I understand that. what business have u found that you love? and if its reselling pins at a crazy over price rate... that makes me sad. If it is something else and just happens to tie into your hobby. good job

 

[markheardjr]

Just cus some people are overcharging..... dose not mean that Everyone has to over charge.

All it takes is one time to sell a pin to someone for a really good price and you see them flip it for profit or trade it for a better pin to not do it again. I think the market sets the value and the market tends to be eBay since it's turly global and almost no barrier to entry. But you can get a deal from a friend from time to time. If I am asking for a deal it is for a collection pin, I generally do not buy pins on the secondary market with the intent to trade or sell. If I sell on DPF I try to do at least a 10% discount, if for nothing else, I'm saving on eBay fees. Kind of irks me when people sell at or above eBay prices on here. Like what gives? You are asking for more than it is BIN on eBay and you don't have to pay eBay fees. That makes no sense. I RARELY sell on DPF though. I got flamebasted last time for listing a few pins. Geez, haters came out of the woodwork, they had to shut down the thread and ultimately deleted it completely. Like I said above though, Everyone has to sell a few pin from time to time. Your traders get stagnant. The same people have seen my book 40 times. They shop at the same pin places I do, so not like they will magically need a pin they bought for themselves. Once it's made it's rounds, I can't get anything on my wants list for it, it's time to just dump it. Keep a few prospects long term to see if they will increase.

Big difference though than the people that are listing pins while they are in DSF line, or taking pics in the store to list ASAP. That just drives me nuts. Or the people giving their family members cash and trying to get as many sets as they can. Just promising kids ice cream for free. Getting 5 or 6 sets of pins that are supposed to be 2 per person but because of the number of people they drag with them we are now at 1 per person. I say jack up the edition size and drop the instant resale value. Lets get back to pins taking months-to-years to get to be worth over $75. Not this instantaneous crap.

 

[chroll]

I'm a collector, a trader and a reseller. Reseller is only a bad word to the people local that can buy pins themselves. Collectors and traders that live too far to buy themselves, generally don't think of resellers as bad because how else would they get the pins?

as an out of stater, I can tell you that I really appreciate resellers on the forum! Im too far and too poor to get to CA every time there is a pin that I want. if someone is preselling for crazy prices, I laugh at them and wait for a better deal. I have purchased from true traders and from resellers and from profiteers. I have even sold a few pins myself. while Id love to be able to purchase old pins at cost, thats silly to expect.

 

[bearcat]

This is such an interesting conversation! And it's so nice to hear from people's perspective - while we can all try and muse on the motives of others, we really only know truly our own thoughts at any given time. I have to agree with markheardjr about how silly it is to see people sell things on dpf for higher than on ebay, when selling on dpf has no fees associated with it.

Personally, I do sell a lot of pins. But I buy second hand - I'm in California, but the northern half, and getting to Disneyland is time and/or money that I don't have right now. And I do sell on ebay, but let me tell you - the rates at which I sell pins does not actually net me any profit. I'm constantly just trying to break even! I think the reason I sell so many pins is a) to try and make up for how much I've spent and b) I have fickle tastes. Part of the reason I've never really had that many grails is because I'm one of those people who only want something until they get it.... and then it's not quite so exciting. So I hunt and hunt and then get something and realize I didn't need it, not like a few core pins in my collection, and poof, the poor pin finds itself back on the market. (of course the opposite is true, where I buy a mystery trader lot and fall madly in love with a pin I've never seen before)

Sorry for this to turn into a monologue! Hope someone found my perspective interesting. Long story short, I'm worried people will think I'm a scalper when I really don't have the time or motive to be one.