What's WRONG with us all?!

Seriously guys, what are we coming to? Why are bits of metal so important that we throw fits when we are grown ups and threaten/leave negative feedback if things aren't just so/perfect for us? I'm not talking "I have nothing in the world I can trade to this person for my grail" fits, I'm talking complete and total lack of understanding that there's a real world out there and not everything gets shipped perfectly and SOMETIMES we have to wait, gasp, a FEW WEEKS for something.

Why are we holding pins hostage and sending them back if they're not "perfect"?

Why aren't we being nicer or more understanding?


In the end, it's just a pretty hunk of metal, is it really worth being so mean over? Is it worth the backbiting and the (not-so) secret posts on the forums and the stirring of the ****** pot? Seriously, sometimes I've had to wait a month for pins on ebay but I don't go leaving negative feedback, so think about how you act and the example you're setting for other pin traders, not to mention your kids if you have them. Likewise, sellers should be in communication with people, I am not excusing sellers at all, but this utter lack of understanding that I've been hearing about is just crazy! If you don't communicate BOTH WAYS, nothing can get handled!

Since people don't seem to understand, this isn't about leaving a well-deserved negative feedback, this is about threatening to destroy someone's ability to function in the pin trading community and about leaving revenge feedback that shames someone. I absolutely think well deserved feedback should be left, positive or negative.

NO PIN IS WORTH THREATENING OVER. ESPECIALLY NOT BODILY HARM!

And as for Emotional Abuse not being equal to Physical? This is not my belief. Having been abused in both senses, there are things that were done to me to manipulate me and hurt me emotionally that have stuck with me much longer than my last husband who physically hurt me. I think ANY KIND OF ABUSE IS ABHORRENT, and SHOULD NOT BE DONE PERIOD. So I am not taking anything back that I've said, I am emphasizing that we should be EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER. But if you want to get angry at me for trying to promote a complete lack of abuse that's fine.

Just my two cents, since we are apparent devolving into metal-thirsty monsters.

AN END NOTE, this is about situations I've heard about around the pin forums, not my ONE PIDDLY NEGATIVE FEEDBACK. Thanks.

You know, I wonder the same thing too. I just hope karma takes care of the few bad apples around here (I love almost everyone here), and I don't let them bother me.

Just remember, if they're so obsessed with these pieces of scrap metal to stoop as low as I know some have- then they're obviously very troubled.



Also, I hope whatever dispute is solved quickly and privately. IDK what's going on now lol

Wow, guess I missed what brought this one, but as far as I know everyone I've traded with has been most understanding. I was ill and couldn't mail out my pins and no one said anything bad. Most of the people I dealt with were so kind and patient I wouldn't have been able to get better without them. I know some people are mean and the pin karma gods will not smile on them. I feel sorry for them. I try to treat others the same way I would want to be treated (and have been). Good pin karma always come back to you.

swim2sea said:

Wow, guess I missed what brought this one, but as far as I know everyone I've traded with has been most understanding. I was ill and couldn't mail out my pins and no one said anything bad. Most of the people I dealt with were so kind and patient I wouldn't have been able to get better without them. I know some people are mean and the pin karma gods will not smile on them. I feel sorry for them. I try to treat others the same way I would want to be treated (and have been). Good pin karma always come back to you.

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That's a fantastic way to put it!

Thing is, "understanding" works both ways. Pins may just be pretty little pieces of metal but they cost real $$$$$ and $$$$$ is hard to come by these days. A lot of people pinch pennies for a long time just to get their grails so I think that people need to be understanding of that as well and realize that not following through with their obligations in a timely manner is not appropriate either.

Waiting a few weeks because of a post office delay - Ok. Waiting for a few weeks because someone hasn't help up to their end of the bargain (depending on the circumstances) - uhhhh I don't think so. If people can't follow through on their promises then they shouldn't be making them. (again, unforeseen circumstances excluded) And pin traders' money isn't short term loans. The merchandise should go out a day or two after the money is received - or in the case of a trade, one or two days after confirmation unless other arangements are agreed upon by both parties.

erudolf said:

Thing is, "understanding" works both ways. Pins may just be pretty little pieces of metal but they cost real $$$$$ and $$$$$ is hard to come by these days. A lot of people pinch pennies for a long time just to get their grails so I think that people need to be understanding of that as well and realize that not following through with their obligations in a timely manner is not appropriate either.

Waiting a few weeks because of a post office delay - Ok. Waiting for a few weeks because someone hasn't help up to their end of the bargain (depending on the circumstances) - uhhhh I don't think so. If people can't follow through on their promises then they shouldn't be making them. And pin traders' money isn't short term loans. The merchandise should go out a day or two after the money is received - or in the case of a trade, one or two days after confirmation unless other arangements are agreed upon by both parties.

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You can like and appreciate value of pins, and even compare them directly to money, and still be understanding towards other pin traders and sellers.


And people can delay trades because of personal matters and such. I'd be furious if this is the same situation again as before with people not understanding the concepts of personal emergencies. People should think of how they would feel if put in other's situations. Cmon now, DPF community.

In all fairness, without knowing the situation in which you speak, there is being fair and there is being beyond fair. I look at it as the Golden Rule, i.e. Treat others as you would want to be treated. To me, that is a fine and fair example to set for anyone. Yes there are mitigating circumstances at times, but if you do not know about them, it is hard to take them into account. Someone here was recently very sick, and their husband came on the board to explain why things had not been mailed. To me, that is perfectly fine and if I had a deal pending with that person, I would be completely understanding. But if I see them online interacting in threads, etc, and not getting responses to PMs or getting info about the pin(s) I bought, then I have to wonder

I mail in a timely fashion and am upfront about any potential issues with a pin, I let them know up front. If either one is an issue, I let the other party know ahead of time instead of them having to chase me down. I helped someone here get a DLRP pin recently as I had a bunch coming and let him piggyback on my order to save on the shipping costs, and you know, it got delayed in being sent out from Paris, and when I found out, I was sure to tell him since he had already paid me for it. To me that is being professional and courteous. Waiting a month without the pin(s) you paid/traded for and not hearing any updates until you nag, or getting a pin that has a major flaw that should have been brought to your attention, not as professional and courteous.

Yes it is a hunk of metal, but it is also a hobby that costs a lot of money in the long run. How would you feel if you got pins that were broke, scratched, incorrect, or missing from Disney and they did not return your e-mails. Pretty peeved I think.

Myself, I have had two situations recently where I paid for pins and there were delays in getting them out to me:

One, the person contacted me upfront, APOLOGIZED, and even sent an extra pin to make up for it. I did that too when it was my fault it did not get out when I said it would.

The other has been a month since I have gotten what I paid for, I had to chase them down to find out there were delays, but I have not left feedback yet, I am still waiting and hoping, even though it should have been here already, but I did let a Mod know about the situation and I am hoping to resolve it without having to leave feedback and you know, even with the hiccup, I would still deal with them again.

Threats are not okay.

I agree that it DEFINITELY goes both ways, but waiting a week or two with communication isn't unreasonable.

Also, THREATENING BODILY HARM is NEVER okay. I've not been threatened with this but I've heard from several people that they were and I finally think it needs to be said that the threatening should STOP!

Constance Sorrow said:

I agree that it DEFINITELY goes both ways, but waiting a week or two with communication isn't unreasonable.

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True, but if they log in daily, and make posts, one would think they could make time to at least PM you or return a PM if there is an issue with a pin/mailing

broncobilly83 said:

True, but if they log in daily, and make posts, one would think they could make time to at least PM you or return a PM if there is an issue with a pin/mailing

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Absolutely, I agree. If you are online you have the time to PM someone. That's why it's a week or two of waiting WITH communication, not lacking it. If you're out of communication that means you're so busy/sick/exhausted(hey it happens!) that you CANNOT get online to check anything. If you have the strength/ability to check your facebook, you have the strength/ability to check and reply to your PMS. If you're too bad off to even sit online and click, that's a different situation entirely. But I 100% agree.

Also, people should keep in mind too that sometimes email gets lost, and to keep contacting too, because you can easily miss one email but if you keep up with trying to contact you've a better chance to actually make the contact. Sometimes people don't know anything is wrong. It's got to be both sides or there's no communication possible.

But threats and lack of understanding are NEVER cool. From either side.

What about my situation where I paid this member on June 9th for a much wanted pin ? It is just a pin and this seller did have zero feedback, but like a new student fresh out of high school with no work experience, if you don't give them a chance to learn, they will never get a job . Same with a seller, can'T gain good feedback if they haven't sold .
I haven't left him negative feedback YET , I am still giving him an opportunity to come through . June 9th paid, I should have had it by the 17th of June at the latest and here it is Junly 21st . So, I ask please, what would you do ?
I know you weren't referring to me, but since I've had this issue recently, it kind of fit .

Tinker said:

What about my situation where I paid this member on June 9th for a much wanted pin ? It is just a pin and this seller did have zero feedback, but like a new student fresh out of high school with no work experience, if you don't give them a chance to learn, they will never get a job . Same with a seller, can'T gain good feedback if they haven't sold .
I haven't left him negative feedback YET , I am still giving him an opportunity to come through . June 9th paid, I should have had it by the 17th of June at the latest and here it is Junly 21st . So, I ask please, what would you do ?
I know you weren't referring to me, but since I've had this issue recently, it kind of fit .

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Reasonably I would also think that you would have your pin by now. If they're not communicating then I think you should leave a negative, but if they are communicating or said they were ill recently I would give them a bit more time.

Over all, people just admitting "IT WILL TAKE ME A BIT TO MAIL TO YOU BECAUSE LIFE GETS IN THE WAY" and asking for patience would accomplish a lot more than making the buyer ask you over and over when you sent it. I think sellers absolutely have to communicate, it would be unreasonable if they didn't. I am calling for patience, but only if the seller is doing their part to communicate! Ignoring dire situations, of course.

I agree with the no threatening bodily harm thing. I wouldn't want that to happen to me either. But recently I was ill in the hospital and hubby did not know how to get into the website to post. When I was able to tell him how, he posted and the people were very nice about not hearing back from me. So there might be a legitimate reason they aren't responding. But I also agree if they are posting on the boards, then they should respond to you. That's just being courteous. But NO BODILY HARM. Some of us are seniors with frail bones

Thats just it , he stopped communicating altogether . The last contact was June 24th, he did state he had forgotten , his wife had been in the hospital . I then responded warmly, that there was no rush as I'd be away till the 28th of June . Since, then therehas been no contact . I would certainly hope that something did not happen to his wife . I always give a person a chance . I privately emailed him yesterday, but no answer as of yet . I'm still holding out that I will get the pin .

Another one with frail bones and I never, ever, would threaten anyone . I couldn't fight myself out of a wet paper bag . :lol: I did, however say, that if I didn't hear back or recive a refund or my pin , I'd leave neg feedback .

You should get what you pay for. I mean, we all pay money for these pins- A LOT of money! For example, the Piece of Disney Movies pins are $19.95 each; pretty pricey. If I'm gonna spend $20 on a pin, it better be nice! On the other hand, don't expect much when you go to ebay and buy a lot of 100 pins for 50 bucks.

Anyway, everyone deserves respect, regardless. I mean, if all pin traders were fair and honest, there wouldn't be any problems. Let us use this post as a way to spark a fair and honest pin trading revolution! ahahah

I'm not sure I could fight my way out of a paper bag period - wet or dry I hope you get your pin. It's frustrating to not hear back and I was so worried while I sick, not that I wouldn't get better, but that I wouldn't get the pins out in a timely manner. I know it was silly, but my good reputation as a pin trader was on the line. I was so glad to be able to finally explain to hubby how to log on so he would let people know what happened. I have nightmares about the PO losing a pin. That happened and I was fortunate enough to have one in my personal collection that I sent to the person. Hubby thinks I'm bonkers about the pin thing

Tinker said:

Thats just it , he stopped communicating altogether . The last contact was June 24th, he did state he had forgotten , his wife had been in the hospital . I then responded warmly, that there was no rush as I'd be away till the 28th of June . Since, then therehas been no contact . I would certainly hope that something did not happen to his wife . I always give a person a chance . I privately emailed him yesterday, but no answer as of yet . I'm still holding out that I will get the pin .

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If it is the person I am thinking it is from what I've read either something very dire happened or several people actually got badly scammed. Holy_Grail being the user in question there (I am NOT afraid to name names because people NEED to do that, if you disappeared suddenly you'd want people to ask about you and not leave you negative feedback right! Naming names can help it work out!). I most certainly hope you hear back from them in either case, if you have their email that's just beyond inexcusable that they're not answering. I know the big issue when I was in the hospital is that my PMs didn't get to my box and so we had no idea anything was wrong, I don't think they even had my email to contact me at, so! I would safely say leave negative feedback and be open to changing it if it gets resolved- changing feedback is ALWAYS an option as long as the Mods are listening!

chipdale123 said:

You should get what you pay for. I mean, we all pay money for these pins- A LOT of money! For example, the Piece of Disney Movies pins are $19.95 each; pretty pricey. If I'm gonna spend $20 on a pin, it better be nice! On the other hand, don't expect much when you go to ebay and buy a lot of 100 pins for 50 bucks.

Anyway, everyone deserves respect, regardless. I mean, if all pin traders were fair and honest, there wouldn't be any problems. Let us use this post as a way to spark a fair and honest pin trading revolution! ahahah

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Oh I could only HOPE!

Constance Sorrow said:

since we are apparent devolving into metal-thirsty monsters.

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Seriously +1 for this. I've seen this WAY too much from people.

Wow, I can't imagine someone threatening bodily harm over a pin- well, actually I can't imagine a good reason to ever threaten bodily harm.


I have no clue what the recent drama may have been, or where this is coming from, but I'm sorry to hear that people are having trouble with trading. I have met some awesome people already in my short time here and thankfully I haven't been acquainted with any of the 'bad apples' yet so to speak

I agree about communication being key no matter what. If you enter into a trade/sell agreement with someone, it's our job to uphold it. Entering in that agreement means you value pins just as much as the other person, so show that through your actions that the other person isn't just a means to an end but a fellow collector.

ESPECIALLY NOT BODILY HARM!

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Umm... bodily harm? Really? Ugh.

Cowards who hide behind the shelter of the internet.

Normally, I'd give a trader benefit of the doubt and wonder if there might have been some sort of extraneous circumstances. But if they're resorting to petty threats, then I say that holy_grail should've gotten worse than negative feedback (just my personal opinion of course ).

Thank you for letting us know who this person is. It's always nice to know someone's character before trading, let alone buying pins from them.

First up: I really don't know about the circumstances that precipitated this post. So I can't speak in specifics. But I will say this: I really wish leaving negative feedback, and threatening bodily harm, weren't grouped together. There's a world of difference separating the two.

Obviously, threatening physical harm for any reason isn't tolerable.

As for negative feedback, there's nothing wrong with leaving it if a user feels it's deserved. If, at some time, a situation is remedied, it's extremely easy to ask a mod or admin to remove a neg. I don't understand what the big deal is over leaving negative references in some folks' minds. I've never had to leave one myself, but if I made a trade or a purchase and received nothing in a month's time, I'd obviously be leaving a neg. If I didn't receive another trader or seller's end of a deal within 2-3 weeks and they were unresponsive to communication, I'd be leaving a neg. Damaged pins without a refund or other agreeable resolution? Leaving a neg.

Please, please please please: don't group negative feedback alongside threats of physical violence. It's really not comparable. Negative feedback serves a valuable purpose to this community, keeping people informed of potential risks and providing a layer of security against would-be thieves or scammers. If people think they can just get away with anything because they feel the community has stigmatized the act of leaving negative feedback, then trading here on DPF will be less secure as a result.

-JD

Gloomy said:

First up: I really don't know about the circumstances that precipitated this post. So I can't speak in specifics. But I will say this: I really wish leaving negative feedback, and threatening bodily harm, weren't grouped together. There's a world of difference separating the two.

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Sadly, they are grouped together because the things I've been hearing around the forum has combined both. There have been a few instances I've heard about where both were threatened. Also, likewise, emotional manipulation and threatening to destroy someone's reputation *IS* just as bad as bodily harm- mental abuse is sometimes even harder to recover from than a physical injury, so I stand by my post. If we tolerate one kind of abuse we open ourselves to tolerating all kinds, and I just cannot abide that.

I do not condone ANY kind of threat. They are ALL abusive and I will not stand to see people being abused in ANY way.

And from the horror stories? Pin trading isn't secure ANYWHERE, not with people stealing right out of books at trade nights, not with scrappers, not with people withholding pins and not with people who take money and run. As a community we are holding to ATROCIOUS social standards, and SOMETHING must be done. No abuse. No theft. Tolerance and Understanding. I cannot believe what I have heard about pin traders as a whole, nor what I have witnessed myself, so I won't back down. Negative feedback only serves a purpose when it's rightly given, and I am seeing it used more and more as REVENGE and leverage. Unfair.

mavericklancer said:

Umm... bodily harm? Really? Ugh.

Cowards who hide behind the shelter of the internet.

Normally, I'd give a trader benefit of the doubt and wonder if there might have been some sort of extraneous circumstances. But if they're resorting to petty threats, then I say that holy_grail should've gotten worse than negative feedback (just my personal opinion of course ).

Thank you for letting us know who this person is. It's always nice to know someone's character before trading, let alone buying pins from them.

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Holy Grail didn't make any threats. Holy_Grail is the one not answering emails and who has people's money.