When is it ok to hijack someone else's TA request?

[rubyslipperedgoddess]

So I imagine that this is going to be a controversial subject, but last night I sent out a few requests, and I've pretty much given up on trading, but now and then I'll want a pin so badly I give it a shot. So, sent out a trade last night and today I get an actual reply, which unlike some of you I prefer it if you didn't respond if you're not interested because my little heart gets so excited when I see a response and it immediately crashes when I see that it's a no. So if you ever get a TA from me, please don't respond unless you want to trade.

Anyway, I digress...I get a response and this person has completely hijacked my request. She has decided to not trade any of the pins that I've asked to trade and instead has created her own request. Which is the first thing that I find completely inappropriate. I don't mind if you want to trade multiple pins, but I really think that you should include the pin(s) that the original sender has asked for. I mean if I didn't ask to trade for a pin, chances are I'm not looking to make that trade at this time. I could be wrong, but I just think that one shouldn't completely make up their own trade.

So that was the first thing, and maybe that's something that just bothers me. The other thing is the trade that she creates. It was 6 for 6, however she offered me 3 rack pins (with very little tradeability value) and a 3 pin LE300 set (which isn't even selling for even it's retail value) in exchange for 4 Princess and the Frog pins, which came from the mystery set, Frog Naveen, LE500, Human Naveen LE400, Louis LE250 and Ray LE100. And 2 rack pins. I was a little pissed off. I wouldn't even trade all 6 of her pins for the Ray LE100. Needless to say that I replied with a not very nice email.

Now some of you might disagree with this tactic, but how often does one have to get a lopsided trade before something just snaps? I ALWAYS offer fair trades, pins of comparable value, and yes sometimes I might click on something else on accident or we value our pins differently, but I always at least offer pins of comparable LE value. I would be embarrassed to send you a request for an LE100 in exchange for a rack pin or even worse a HM. I just don't understand why some traders think it's ok to offer any old pin for the one that they're asking for. Why can't you take just an extra minute or 2 and make thoughtful decisions that are fair or at least as fair as you can get, instead of clicking on every pin that comes up?

I haven't been collecting long enough to have a lot of older traders, but I do have a handful of newer pins that have some value, and very few of them are LE100. So of course I don't want to waste them on any old pin, I want to save them so I can get another LE100 pin on my wants list, or perhaps even an older pin that is harder to find due to it's age and being incorporated into one's permanent collection. And I would think that most of you are the same way. That with the current climate of pin trading, making thoughtful trades is more important than trading to get more pins or other traders (although this was not the case for me, she was offering the same amount of pins as she was asking for).

So sorry for going on, and I'm sure there are many of you that disagree with how I trade and my response to the other trader, but I'm curious, how the rest of you respond and/or react to one-sided TA requests or how do you feel about another trader hijacking your request and completely changing the trade.

 

[Gloomy]

I just don't understand why some traders think it's ok to offer any old pin for the one that they're asking for. Why can't you take just an extra minute or 2 and make thoughtful decisions that are fair or at least as fair as you can get, instead of clicking on every pin that comes up?

For me, it boils down to two reasons. First, that extra minute or two literally becomes hours when it's applied to 100+ pins. Second, if I'm doing a trade of a bigger pin for a bigger pin, but I have a smaller pin someone wants, I frequently don't mind adding in the smaller pin to give more incentive for the other trader.

It's easier just to put everything on the table; add an appropriate comment to the TA Request; and cross my fingers and hope the person receiving the TA Request will assume that I'm not mentally impaired and/or trying to rip them off.

As for your main question, I think it's a good one. I'm fine with someone expressing interest in other pins I have if the pins in my initial TA requests don't work for them. At the same time though, I recently acquired a few doubles of some pretty solid Jessica pins, and I'm getting really tired of everyone going after them regardless of what they're trying to trade me. I'm generally fine with trade "hijacking" as long as it's reasonable - in fact, "hijacking" seems like a bit of a brutal term to apply to it. But in cases like yours, where it seems like someone is basically trying bilk you out of an LE 100 for an unwanted LE 300, it's definitely irksome.

Personally, I'd never send a pissed off reply to anyone, since there's really no reason to shut the door on a potential trade down the line. It's also possible that the trader is new, or simply isn't entrenched enough in the hobby to understand that their offer isn't practical. But it can be a bit frustrating. Frankly, I'm starting to realize that no matter how you use the TA system, you're probably going to get on somebody's nerves at some point. I know my weekly trade blasts can be a bit annoying to some traders, actually. So I just try to roll with everything; give people the benefit of the doubt; and remain courteous in all situations.

-Jason

 

[breadnbutterflies]

ive run into this problem as well counter offering irks me.mainly because half the time they are unfair.it seems people always want to get better than what their offering.ive made a mistake once or twice by not realizing i clicked on a pin that wasnt afair offer.and if they reply back i apologize and explain my mistake,but i always take the time to look at the numbers,its just the proper way of making a ta request in my opinion.

 

[rubyslipperedgoddess]

For me, it boils down to two reasons. First, that extra minute or two literally becomes hours when it's applied to 100+ pins.

I understand this mentality, we all want to save time, but don't you think that the people who receive our requests want to save time as well? It's only considerate to think of the inconvenience that you may be causing the other trader by inundating their mail box with your requests.

Also I'm not sure how this courtesy would take you hours? Are you saying you send out a request for every pin you own?

 

[caligirlUCR]

While I agree that counter offers can be for multi-pins but should ALWAYS include the original pin asked for or an explanation if the pin is no longer available.

But this person was obviously excited to trade with you and In my experience no one tries to create such a lopsided trade on purpose. I am guessing that this person is probably new and obviously wanting to collect Princess and the Frog - which unfortunately for new collectors there are WAY more LE's than non LE's for this catergory.

I know that some trade requests can cause us to reach our "breaking points" but when that happens I recommend not responding and simply deleting the email. Or wait until a few hrs later and simply explain that to you the trade is lopsided and suggest a new trade. Or respond with a simple no thanks. Another reason why some people do not send out requests/or reply to them anymore is because they may have been the recipient of a "breaking point" email where the person basically takes out built up pin frustration on them. Its not worth the aggrevation to reply "angry" to yourself or for the other person. I am pretty sure that no one sends requests for trades to upset someone else.

 

[Gloomy]

Also I'm not sure how this courtesy would take you hours? Are you saying you send out a request for every pin you own?

Kind of? Once every week or two, I send out "What can I get for this pin?" trade offers with everything checked, for about 150 pins. Far from everything I own, but, a good percentage of it.

As for inundating people with requests, it's one e-mail, sent once every week or two. It doesn't seem like a terrible imposition.

-JD

 

[rubyslipperedgoddess]

Gloomy, I was not implying that your one request is the problem, but if everyone were to trade this way, than yes it is a lot of offers, for trades that most people are not going to accept (not because of your requests, but because it seems like no one ever trades anymore). And if everyone responded, as requested than indeed that is a lot of wasted time for everyone. Do we not all have better things to do with our time?

 

[scottydem]

Counter-offering is part of trading. I don't have a problem receiving or giving a counter-offer. I don't even think it's that big of a deal.


And using the word "hijack" isn't quite what this is at all, it's actually misleading.

 

[Gloomy]

Ruby - I'm not sure I see your point. I'd actually be pretty happy to receive hundreds of TA requests on a daily basis from hundreds of individuals ready to discuss potential deals, all armed with things from my Wants, and wanting things from my Trades. Isn't getting in touch with new people who have potential trade matches what Pinpics was designed to facilitate? It seems far better than the typical silence and lack of trade action that most people complain about.

-JD

 

[Abyssinian28]

::shrug::

It doesn't bother me unless it's unfair, in which case it's not about the counter-offering...it's about receiving unfair offers in any form.

 

[TheGrimGrinner]

I'm still confused as to what exactly we're calling "hijacking" here.... what does that mean?

And when I get a PP TA request with a TON of pins listed on it, I usually skip it with the intentions of getting back to it (but then never really do). I think the only TAs I truly consider are requests that it clearly looks like the trader put some time and thought into their request.

Also, it depends if I'm looking for that pin at the moment.. but that's for another thread.

 

[Gloomy]

Okay, so I did have a unique experience today. In response to a TA Request I made for a particular pin, I received a very polite decline response, coupled with an equally cordial offer of a link to a reasonably priced eBay BIN listing for said pin. ._.

I can't tell if this person is using Pinpics to shill his eBay listings, or if it's really just someone genuinely trying to be helpful and linking me to a completely unrelated person's sale. But it was certainly a first, and I got a chuckle out of it, so I'm just going to give the person the benefit of the doubt and move along. Figured it was worth noting here though, strictly for its originality. Does this happen to other people?

-JD

 

[Grumpy74]

Kind of? Once every week or two, I send out "What can I get for this pin?" trade offers with everything checked, for about 150 pins. Far from everything I own, but, a good percentage of it.

As for inundating people with requests, it's one e-mail, sent once every week or two. It doesn't seem like a terrible imposition.

-JD

I agree with Gloomy except I do it all the time "The clicking part" lol... But I always send requests because to me you never know if the reciever will want a 2nd pin out of a trade request & this saves you alot of time from haveing to look through 3 or 4 pages of pins wasting your time. this way the request I send tells you what pin I want from you & based on what pins I am willing to trade you that you want up front right off the bat. This way you can reply yes but only if you throw in your pin #???? with it insted of "NO, STOP SENDING STUPID REQUESTS" which I get a few of & just ignore.

 

[Grumpy74]

I'm still confused as to what exactly we're calling "hijacking" here.... what does that mean?

And when I get a PP TA request with a TON of pins listed on it, I usually skip it with the intentions of getting back to it (but then never really do). I think the only TAs I truly consider are requests that it clearly looks like the trader put some time and thought into their request.

Also, it depends if I'm looking for that pin at the moment.. but that's for another thread.

Grim but what if in that list you skip through had 1 or 2 of your Holy Grails? wouldn't that be a loss to you? I think personally I would review it then consider it before I decide.

 

[RIDisneyPinGuy]

Pin specifics aside...

There may be a number of reasons for someone to reply and not have the original pins involved in the counter offer. They may just see it as an open channel to discuss any potential trade, considering that if the received a TA from you you are an active trader. Here it has been mentioned on DPF about low TA success, frequently traders post "want to trade" threads, because TAs aren't doing the trick... someone replying a counter offer (even if completely different) is an interested trader, and at the least should be seen IMO as a positive lead.

Again, pin specifics aside...
To give a rude reply based only on the fact they offered a completely different trade, is poor form and counterproductive for all. The more rude replys people receive = the more no-replys people give, even on trades that may have happened. People get a bad taste in their mouth, they aren't going to continue to try online trades.

I can't speak for everybody, but I know I didn't get into pin trading to deal with rudeness... I get it enough at work, on the roads, in the store, and every other aspect of real life, I don't need it in my hobby (and escape from real life).

Just my opinion and another viewpoint to consider.

 

[LuvSimba]

I think the only TAs I truly consider are requests that it clearly looks like the trader put some time and thought into their request.

I agree here, 100%. If a trader is just going to check every pin, I'm not going to look at the request. I get an average of 15-20 TAs a day. I'd say 99% of them are not even close to being fair. Not even close. My time is precious and I don't have any to waste on offers that are so far off the mark.

But my 2cents for the 'hijacking' is, as long as it's a fair counter offer for different pins, I'll take a look. Fair being the key word.

 

[Nettiejeanne]

I get an average of 15-20 TAs a day.

WOW! In my dreams! You must have awesome traders! The actual reason I'm posting here is because I coincidentally received a TA request from Jason (Gloomy), today. In it, there were two different offers. In the comment section he put " Could we discuss a trade? Open to reasonable offers." Because of that, I emailed him back and asked if we could modify it a bit. We've gone back and forth a couple of times and it looks like we are doing a 3 for 3 pin trade. I think we are both going to be really happy and it's all due to simple communication.

I truly believe that a pin is only worth what each person perceives it's value to be. You may think one of your LE100's is worth 20 of my rack pins, but I don't think it's worth 2. It's all individual. Plus, I'm not as good at valuing pins as many others are. I rely heavily on pin pics trading/wants ratios, along with how badly do I really WANT that pin.... or sometimes... how badly do I NEED that pin?

I've over traded before for a pin I really wanted. Who cares? If I want it & the trade makes us both happy, I don't mind over trading. My collection isn't valuable. They are just pins I like. The only reason I try to get "valuable" traders is to get the pins I really like that happen to be considered more valuable to their current owners.

Someday, my pins will come!

 

[Grumpy74]

AMEN NETTIE! We all value our pins differantly.

 

[Gloomy]

And we did finalize that trade by the way. ^_^ Thanks Nettie!

-Jason

 

[dancecats]

I think there's a difference between replying with a counter offer and blatantly (to use the term provided by Ruby) 'hijacking' the TA. For example, and I apologise in advance if this gets confusing (I'm keeping this generic because I'm discussing hypothetical situations), let's say that Trader A sends Trader B a TA offering Pin P in exchange for Pin X, Pin Y, or Pin Z. The way I see it, Trader B has several options (in my opinion):

Option 1: If Trader B is happy with the TA as such, he/she can accept the TA and indicate which pin (X, Y, or Z) he/she would like to give up in exchange for Pin P

Option 2: If Trader B isn't quite happy with the TA as such but still wants to trade for Pin P, he/she can propose a counter offer of pin(s) that Trader B is willing to trade for Pin P that also are on Trader A's wants list and see if something still can be negotiated

Option 3: If Trader B isn't happy with the TA and isn't interested in the pins in question, politely decline the trade or delete the TA without replying. I don't think it's polite to turn someone's TA into your own pin trade request. People send out requests for the pins they want to trade/receive - and you can do the same for the pins you want to trade/receive.

When I had my TA on (yes, once upon a time, I actually had it turned on), I always replied to every single request I received, either to accept the trade, politely decline it, or on occasion (mostly when the notes indicated that the trader was open to it), send a counter offer. No matter what my answer was, though, I always was polite ... . After all, as was posted above, you don't want to close off any potential pin trading avenues. Just because you decline a trade with a person 'now' doesn't mean you won't want to trade with that individual in the future - and you wouldn't want that person to refuse to trade with you because you were rude. I've also had TAs that I've started out declining turn into trades just because I was so polite in the way I turned them down; the people came back to me and asked if they could work something out or trade in the future. The bottom line, IMO, is that pin trading is meant to be fun and enjoyable and while you're going to get some offers that will make you sit back, blink, and think 'huh? is he/she for real?' there never is any excuse for rudeness because I think that being rude only makes you look bad and, ultimately, will hurt your attempts to make trades.