Will Frozen be the next Tangled?

ElysionsPrincess said:

But if you haven't seen the movie, how can you say that they are similar? That is the point I'm trying to make, and am reiterating.

Im just confused. I would still consider this a feminist movie. Sure, there may not be AS MANY female characters as desired, but there must be male characters included for leads as well. Disney should not feel obligated or pressured to alienate any one gender at any given time. I think we will find that it is very balanced. And to me, that is the essence of feminism; finding the equality an balance between gender. As for the POC princess, I think for sure we will see our next leading lady take on this role. Disney will be very selective about location and ethnicity of their next princess to prevent this backlash. However I don't know how long it will be until we see the next princess.

Click to expand...

They just are TO ME lol (and to others apparently) I guess my question would be if you feel that it's "wrong" for people to find certain characters to be similar? It's just how sassy they are to their counterpart that reminds me of the other. I think Anna and Elsa will be wonderful characters, and I don't see why it's bad to say that Anna and Rapunzel are similar. I acknowledge that they are different characters, but so far they remind me of each other. My opinion may change once I see the movie. Nothing wrong with that.

Here is the post that I am referring to (about the feminism part), and why I agree with them about how similar of a direction Disney went with Frozen (at least the marketing part, and other things...):

"So you can imagine that I was profoundly disappointed when I heard that Disney’s adaptation, now called Frozen (a Tangled-reminiscent decision that stinks of avoiding the need to market a film with a female centered title), had cut out every single one of these female characters save for Gerda, now called Anna, and the Snow Queen, who is now Anna’s sister. The women have been replaced with a cast of men, and Anna is now accompanied on her journey by a “Mountain Man” named Kristoff (edit: a helpful anon informed me that his name is not Hans, as I originally stated. Hans is in fact another male character and may be a factor in a possible love triangle for Anna). Kristoff is obviously intended to serve as romantic interest for the now aged up Anna, who as Gerda in the original, felt a love for her friend Kai that was strictly platonic. (Kai, by the way, has been dropped altogether.)Now I know that Disney often drastically changes the plot of fairy tales that it adapts and I’ve never been one to complain about it. But most of these fairy tales have been simple stories with archetypal characters and a bare bones plot. Most of the changes made by Disney improve the original in terms of depth of narrative and character.
The Snow Queen is not that story. Disney’s changes not only appear to play down the emotional and narrative depth of the story, they violate many of its central themes.
That Disney feels it’s necessary to take a female driven, female dominated story and cut it down to one princess protagonist with a dashing male helper/love interest, is honestly disgusting and one of the most blatant examples of Hollywood’s lack of faith in women in recent memory."

It’s one of those clear examples in which everything that is wrong with our media’s approach to women and female agency is even more apparent, if only because we have a clear source to compare it to, and we can see what the studio chose to change.

A female protagonist who primarily goes it alone? Can’t have that. She needs a hot dude to be by her side so the audience doesn’t get bored by all the lady time, and also she needs someone to get with at the end. And on that note, let’s make her older and also a princess.

A bunch of women who, if expanded, could be diverse and original characters, friends, villains and comic relief? No way that would work. Let’s just replace them with some dudes and a talking snowman. We can’t have more than two women in a story. After all, every other fairy tale we’ve produced has only let women be a princess or a villain. Why break the pattern now? Why let girls know that they have inherent power no matter where they come from? Why let them know they have other options. And while we’re at it, we’ve got to make sure everyone is white.

So yeah, that’s why I’m boycotting Frozen.

Click to expand...

[source]

Now, I get that she hasn't seen the movie, but it's still possible to see how the plot is driven by just the trailer and why she has developed this argument (and just Disney doing their thing without caring what anyone else thinks lol Like what they did with Pocahontas). But Disney doesn't HAVE to have males in their movies. Boys and those who identify as male won't feel alienated about not having males leads in a princess movie since there are many other Disney films (ie The Avengers) and non-Disney films that have male leads. One Disney film with mostly female characters will not make a boy feel insecure about themselves, when Hollywood lives off of male-protagonist dominated films. I do agree that a big part of feminism is about gender equality, but another big part is female empowerment, and just like she wrote, Disney could have done and focused on. One thing this film will show is a sister dynamic we haven't seen since Mulan II, and in theaters for a long time (in an animated film at least).

Anyhoo, I really doubt they will lol Apparently princess of color do not sell well so they stick with what does. I don't think Disney really has to find a specific location with POC as a majority and write their story based on that area. But I guess that's too progressive for them lol We shall see I mean, it's a fantasy, it can break the rules of "logic."

Again, not here to hurt feelings <3 Disney is that one fandom that I love with all my heart, despite the flaws they have. I am here with a calm tone, so if it seems like I am bashing/upset/any negative emotion, please know that it's not that way at all. I just love discussing the problems Disney has, and ways that they can become an even better (and richer lol) brand. So please don't think I am upset or hate your opinion <3 Cause I don't! Disagreeing does not mean hate!

I think I'm a little late to the conversation, and I really just dropped in to say that I'm looking forward to this movie, but one point in the above post that I find interesting is that the quoted reviewer refers to the "dashing male helper." I kind of thought that it was refreshing that the male - possible love interest - wasn't dashing for once. My wife had the same reaction when she saw the latest trailer too.

Meh... doesn't really matter, and probably doesn't add much to the conversation, but I do like a little love story in my princess movies, and I think it's nice that it looks like the ice-cutter might have a leg up on the traditional dashing male in this tale.

What?! Princesses?! The way they are marketing Frozen I have only seen Olaf. I didn't even have any idea they had princesses in it! I am much more excited about the movie now.

I think making assumptions before anyone has seen even a worthwhile trailer is jumping the gun so to speak.

Let's see the movie and then have our opinions.

Let's not all start acting like whack a doodles.

I don't feel seeing the movie really has anything to do with pin popularity! It definitely helps if you love the movie, however, if someone likes the way the characters look and the pin designs, I don't know if it will matter all that much if they like the movie! I am not a Lilo and Stitch fan, but some of the Stitch and Scrump pins are the cutest and I would buy them even though I am not a fan of the movie! I think that will be the case here! I look forward to seeing the movie, looks like it will be good in my opinion, and I already like the Caribou and wouldn't mind having some of the pins of him at some point!

I can tell Frozen is going to be popular and I really hope it's more popular than Tangled. I'm just ready for something else to be popular.

From what spoilers I've read, Frozen is going to be amazing, I just hope Disney pulls through. Even if Frozen turns out to be terrible, I won't care because Idina Menzel is Elsa and that's all that matters to me. I'll still buy every Elsa merchandise Disney puts out.

Also I agree with asteriskos, the thing that upsets me the most about Frozen is the lack of PoC characters and people's excuses for it. I won't talk about it here though because it happens enough on tumblr.

I'm just gonna say it cause this bugs me.... How would you like to incorporate a princess of color into this movie? This story this SPECIFIC fairy tale that Disney is making is VERY limited to what country they can use for the setting of this film..... This is not a generic fairy tale like Cinderella where you can pop in any princess of any race and make it work... Also Disney even went so far as to include a minority group in this film of "white people". That piece that girl wrote also spoke of leaving out tribes of that region, when Disney did not!!! Kristoff the " dashing mountain man" is suppose to be part of the Inuit tribe. That's a big thing if everyone wants to play the race card... A leading male role in a "white" film is a minority. But is that not good enough? Would people have been more satisfied if Anna and Elsa were instead? Is that what bugs everyone? That the princesses are the race of their kingdom?
I don't know... This just makes no sense to me that every movie that disneys produced for a princess someone has to bring race into it.... And this statement is coming from a girl is a minority in both cultures.

Okay sorry done ranting. I just needed say my piece. And if people don't agree fine but I put my opinion out there.

asteriskos said:

They just are TO ME lol (and to others apparently) I guess my question would be if you feel that it's "wrong" for people to find certain characters to be similar? It's just how sassy they are to their counterpart that reminds me of the other. I think Anna and Elsa will be wonderful characters, and I don't see why it's bad to say that Anna and Rapunzel are similar. I acknowledge that they are different characters, but so far they remind me of each other. My opinion may change once I see the movie. Nothing wrong with that.

Click to expand...

For you, it may not be a bad thing that they are "similar," (I will use quotes because this is not my opinion), but a lot of other people are dishing out the comments with heavy negative connotation. By saying this, many people are insinuating that Disney has no creativity and is merely banking on Tangled's popularity to attempt to make Frozen a success (by using "similar designs" and "similar plot" etc). I'm not saying this is what you think, nor what I think, or maybe not even anyone in this thread. I'm just explaining why people say it so negatively and why I've brought it up in such fashion. Tumblr is the main source of hatred for this film.

asteriskos said:

Here is the post that I am referring to (about the feminism part), and why I agree with them about how similar of a direction Disney went with Frozen (at least the marketing part, and other things...):

[source]

Now, I get that she hasn't seen the movie, but it's still possible to see how the plot is driven by just the trailer and why she has developed this argument (and just Disney doing their thing without caring what anyone else thinks lol Like what they did with Pocahontas). But Disney doesn't HAVE to have males in their movies. Boys and those who identify as male won't feel alienated about not having males leads in a princess movie since there are many other Disney films (ie The Avengers) and non-Disney films that have male leads. One Disney film with mostly female characters will not make a boy feel insecure about themselves, when Hollywood lives off of male-protagonist dominated films. I do agree that a big part of feminism is about gender equality, but another big part is female empowerment, and just like she wrote, Disney could have done and focused on. One thing this film will show is a sister dynamic we haven't seen since Mulan II, and in theaters for a long time (in an animated film at least).

Anyhoo, I really doubt they will lol Apparently princess of color do not sell well so they stick with what does. I don't think Disney really has to find a specific location with POC as a majority and write their story based on that area. But I guess that's too progressive for them lol We shall see I mean, it's a fantasy, it can break the rules of "logic."

Again, not here to hurt feelings <3 Disney is that one fandom that I love with all my heart, despite the flaws they have. I am here with a calm tone, so if it seems like I am bashing/upset/any negative emotion, please know that it's not that way at all. I just love discussing the problems Disney has, and ways that they can become an even better (and richer lol) brand. So please don't think I am upset or hate your opinion <3 Cause I don't! Disagreeing does not mean hate!

Click to expand...

So...its okay for them to not include male protagonists in Frozen, because male viewers have other films like "The Avengers" that they can go to? If it were the other way around, I don't think this statement would fly. If someone were to say, "I don't understand why girls are mad that there are hardly any female characters in Rise of the Guardians. If they want girl characters to identify with, they can go watch *insert stereotyped chick flick here*," something tells me people would be offended. It isn't right either way. I think there should be a balance. I feel as if all audience members should feel welcomed and have a character that they can identify with in any film, based on gender, race, or maybe even someday sexuality. We are a far way from perfection, but I think there is progress being made with this film.

You are 100% right in saying that Hollywood is always more focused on a male audience, at least with most b-buster films. However if we look at the most successful films of all time, the ones that everyone remembers, I always find that the gender roles are somewhat equal. (Example; "Avatar" had a set of very empowering female and male leads). In my opinion, this shows that what the public wants to see is an equal, balanced representation of both genders. Not to mention they were blue, which totally rocked. I'm not sure if that makes any sense lol but I'm trying to explain myself as efficiently as possible.

I think that this film will be empowering for females. All because there are male protag(s) present does not mean that they are going to be the heroes, save the day, or even be all that important to the plot at all. Maybe the point is to show us that the ladies kick the butt? In the American trailer, we see the text asking us who will save the kingdom (or whatever), and it shows Kristoph, "The Ice Man?" Olaf, "The Snowman?" Hans "The Nice Guy?" and then finally Anna, where it writes "Or no man?". I mean...if that's not shadowing for some serious female-buns kicking I'm not sure what is! :lol: Its way way too early to assume that Disney is just going to make this movie about Kristoph saving the day and mending their bond and then him and Anna riding off into the sunset. You know what I mean? Lol. I feel like we are demonizing something that is being kept extremely hidden from us.

I know what you are saying about POC For sure...at the Disney Store we sell 100 Rapunzel dresses to every 1 Pocahontas dress. It really is rather upsetting. However I think that if they marketed something right, they could make it happen (with some pixie dust!). I would personally DIE to see an princess from India (ya'll should watch Arjun the Warrior Prince, its distributed by Disney and is just a taste of what we could have!). I hope that someday my wishes are granted!

I don't want to hurt feelings either <3 I type kinda aggressively sometimes so please do forgive me if anything that I have said came off as snarky or rude. I find the topic very interesting, even if it is so controversial. I would love to continue this talk maybe via PM? (maybe after the film has been released? Lol!). Don't want to clog this thing up forever! :wavey:

Frozen has a talking snowman and a girl with ice powers, if it can have that, I just don't see why it's so crazy and inaccurate for it to have a PoC. I don't need Elsa or Anna to be PoC, although it would be nice, but why couldn't anyone in the movie be PoC?

I know it seems hard to believe, but there were PoC in Europe back in the day (and they weren't all slaves) and I don't understand why there couldn't even be a random PoC in the background.

I'm just tired, I'm tired of not being represented and people's lame excuses for it. I don't want other PoC children growing up feeling the way I felt.

This is is an argument that will always be an argument, which is sad. if PoC don't demand that we get more representation, then we never will.

I think I missed something??? :lol: Happy Thoughts!

evlover0327 said:

Frozen has a talking snowman and a girl with ice powers, if it can have that, I just don't see why it's so crazy and inaccurate for it to have a PoC. I don't need Elsa or Anna to be PoC, although it would be nice, but why couldn't anyone in the movie be PoC?

I know it seems hard to believe, but there were PoC in Europe back in the day (and they weren't all slaves) and I don't understand why there couldn't even be a random PoC in the background.

I'm just tired, I'm tired of not being represented and people's lame excuses for it. I don't want other PoC children growing up feeling the way I felt.

This is is an argument that will always be an argument, which is sad. if PoC don't demand that we get more representation, then we never will.

Click to expand...

Kristoff is Inuit. Does he not count? And he isn't even a background character he's a main person.... But I'm assuming it will only count if he's dark skinned and a woman? Then people would be happy yes? I understand we're not going to agree but I'm showing Disney is not as closed minded as people make them seem... There is more minorities in this world then just African, Hispanic, or Asian.

Rasputin said:

I think making assumptions before anyone has seen even a worthwhile trailer is jumping the gun so to speak.

Let's see the movie and then have our opinions.

Let's not all start acting like whack a doodles.

Click to expand...

^ Completely agree! It's too soon to tell if Frozen is similar or better than Tangled bc the movie itself isn't out yet!

Sometimes in the past I judged a character before seeing the movie and just assumed it was just another lame dumb character. After Tarzan I was having trouble liking the movies that came out and I prejudged Stitch as an annoying sidekick character who was taking over the previews for the movie. When I saw Lilo and Stitch though I realized how WRONG I was, and since then Lilo AND Stitch are just 2 of my many favorite Disney Characters! Later on I prejudged Ray from the Princess and the Frog as the same thing, and once again when I saw the movie I realized how awesome Ray is too! What I've learned from this is that when it comes to previews for movies it isn't enough information to base anything off of! Olaf may seem like another annoying character but he may turn out as heartwarming as Ray or even Stitch. We won't know the full story until we see the whole movie... when it's released!

From what I've seen from the previews though, I'm thinking that there won't be a true physical villain in Frozen. It could possibly be a mental conflict like in Brave; where Merida and Queen Elinor had their own conflicting opinions and mind sets, but there was no villain that caused all the problems in the film; just a mistake that Merida made by striking a deal with the witch which lead to all the bigger problems.

From the previews I've seen of Frozen this is what I think could possibly be the plot: Because of Elsa's powers she accidentally created and/or made a few mistakes which caused harm to the kingdom, or maybe she tried to keep her powers a secret and she was exposed during her coronation. Whichever reason it was, she accidentally somehow went too far with her powers and the kingdom banishes her, so she retaliates by freezing the kingdom before leaving to exile. Anna goes to rescue the town from Elsa's spell(s) all while saving her sister at the same time. < So in this sense there may not be a singular villain in Frozen; just mindsets which pit characters against each other.
^This whole paragraph is my opinion of the plot, but it would be cool though if this actually is the plot ^^

colorwindpainter said:

Kristoff is Inuit. Does he not count? And he isn't even a background character he's a main person.... But I'm assuming it will only count if he's dark skinned and a woman?

Click to expand...

Is Kristoff seriously Inuit? I honestly did not know that because he looks in no way, shape, or form anything like the majority of Inuit people look like. For reference:

Most Inuit people:



Kristoff:



He looks completely Caucasian, no doubt about it <_< I don't even think he has to be dark-skinned but if they were going to make him Inuit, I'd much rather they have ACTUALLY made him look, you know, Inuit. I would have actually had no problem if he were some other race honestly...

I'm moving on to pin trading...

I have been trying to collect a few pins with some success from the Adventures by Disney - Enchanted China Tour. Some of the pins handed out have characters from the Mulan movie which is my main focus. But last night I got this email that started out;

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] [TABLE="align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 500, align: left"] Hello Collins Family,

Adventures by Disney® can literally show you and your family the world, in ways you've never thought possible. And now with our new 8-day/7-night Norway vacation, you can experience the land that inspired Disney's upcoming new comedy-adventure film Frozen.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Now, if the China adventure has Mulan and friends, what are the chances that at each stop in the Norway trip, that they will be Frozen themed pins? I believe these will be the next big thing if Frozen takes off like some think.:shock:


Getting on to other things, I think I may have to collect this movie. My mom was from Norway and I have a lot of family still there (though I don't know any of them), and have been surrounded with names like Olaf, Ole, Ingeborg, Kristian and the likes. It just seems a good fit. I sincerely hope it's not the new "Tangled". You all know getting the pins would be so frustrating.
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]
[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

bcol said:

I'm moving on to pin trading...

I have been trying to collect a few pins with some success from the Adventures by Disney - Enchanted China Tour. Some of the pins handed out have characters from the Mulan movie which is my main focus. But last night I got this email that started out;

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]

[/TD]
[TD="align: left"] [TABLE="align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] Hello Collins Family,

Adventures by Disney® can literally show you and your family the world, in ways you've never thought possible. And now with our new 8-day/7-night Norway vacation, you can experience the land that inspired Disney's upcoming new comedy-adventure film Frozen.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Now, if the China adventure has Mulan and friends, what are the chances that at each stop in the Norway trip, that they will be Frozen themed pins? I believe these will be the next big thing if Frozen takes off like some think.:shock:


Getting on to other things, I think I may have to collect this movie. My mom was from Norway and I have a lot of family still there (though I don't know any of them), and have been surrounded with names like Olaf, Ole, Ingeborg, Kristian and the likes. It just seems a good fit. I sincerely hope it's not the new "Tangled". You all know getting the pins would be so frustrating.
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Click to expand...

Not sure Bruce, does the Scotland tour have Brave pins? I don't know anyone who has gone on the ABD to Scotland so I'm not sure, although I will ask on DISBoards to find out.

starry_solo said:

Not sure Bruce, does the Scotland tour have Brave pins? I don't know anyone who has gone on the ABD to Scotland so I'm not sure, although I will ask on DISBoards to find out.

Click to expand...

I couldn't find any. I don't want to hijack this thread so I am continuing this elsewhere. Hope I'm doing this right.:anxious:

markheardjr said:

I didn't say it was. I said Brave had potential being the first pixar movie with a princess, but in the end it was a crappy story, the side kick brothers were only relevant and funny for like .2 seconds, they showed the all the good stuff in the preview, the horse didn't talk, they kind of left the ending botched, the story jumped and left holes...anything else? Visually it was great.

Click to expand...

i thought Bugs Life was the first Princess that pixar created, well to me she is as much a princess as jasmine is

Ozzie1988 said:

i thought Bugs Life was the first Princess that pixar created, well to me she is as much a princess as jasmine is

Click to expand...

I do love Princess Atta!