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MORE Scary new scrapper images from China????

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MORE Scary new scrapper images from China????
disney5

disney5

No Bobby gets left behind!
DPF Charter Member
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Great....another email from the same guy in China that sent the images with the Mother's Day Kevin pin...this time the pictures show some Vinylmation CHASERS!!! ARG!
scrapperimages11-24-01.jpg

scrapperimages11-24-02.jpg

scrapperimages11-24-03.jpg

This is so sad...we could cry if we weren't so sick to our stomachs!
 
MMmmm! I've already seen & handled some of these in past trips - again I personally think that this is not helping our hobby. Thanks for sharing the info & appreciated, again this really peeves me!!
 
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A lot of these pins are older and have been scrapped for some time. Too bad about any new scrappers but sad to see they already hit toy story and some nightmare Vinylmations.

As for Disney shutting down Factories, what you need to know about China is there are 1000's of factories and many work together.
I was in the Car Audio Manufacturing business and even as a manufacturer, we paid for and own our own molds, however, once we decide to switch factories and try to claim our molds, they myeteriously lose them or they have broken.

Also, even if we got back our molds, they have already copied them and now have them in a dozen other factories. The other thing most of you dont know from the legal aspect is that you dont just SUE a manufacturer or take them to court. (and remember they are in a different country with different laws. (could you blame our customs officials who allow them to come in? or should it be the people who get these by direct mail which is not typically checked like other incoming tangibles)

The way the law would work both nationally and internationally is they would be served with a CEASE & DESIST letter telling them they have been forewarned and need to stop production immediatly. So what do they do if this happens, usually nothing but if action were taken, they would just give the molds to another factory and so on, and so on.

In the car audio industry, it worked a little differently. An example is I know a company that made low end CD players but made them look just like Alpine with the clear push buttons. You can hardley tell the difference other than one was Alpine and great Quality and the other was junk behind the faceplate. When Alpine gave the Cease & Desist, they also included a stipulation that they ,rather then the company selling off what they have already made, will buy all of the units made so they can destroy them and not tarnish their brand name.

Pins of course are different. Its just like your first amendment rights in the us may not apply in other countries. However, once it hits our borders, then its a different story. So the real guilty parties and who can and should be prosecuted are the people importing these and accepting the shipment of these pins.

And I heard someone say they offered Lotso for $2.00 a pin, that does not sound like China as I know people who have received these letters and pins average 45 - 60 cents with 80 cents being on the high end. They want you to purchase 3000 pins minimum and pay all shipping cost.
It is something that will never go away so you have to learn how to deal with it and the best way is to educate yourself about the pins you like to collect.

And in the long time this has been happening, the counterfeiters are getting much better at what they do. many of us have mentioned that Disney;s quality standards are getting worse so maybe soon scrappers will be a better quality than the real thing. Pretty scary huh?
 
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This is a scary, sad problem, but not dealing with it won't make the problem go away. In dealing with it, we have two choices:

1. We can bury our heads in the sand, pretend that it doesn't exist, and hope for the best when it comes to trading off lanyards

2. We can post the information that is out there regarding these scary, fake pins so we can educate ourselves and (we hope) the rest of the pin community as to what is going on and make the best choices based upon this information

I vote that we continue to share the information that we learn about these highly problematic pins ... either through posting or private messages when posts aren't appropriate ... and do what we can to help make each other better educated and more informed members of the pin trading community.

I believe that Disney *is* doing something about the counterfeit/scrapper problem, but they can't very well announce what they are doing because it would jeopardize their investigations. Furthermore, I believe that the problem is so big that for every one source they find and close, there must be at least 3-4 that nobody know about or they can't do anything about (at least, at that time).
 
Please understand that I DO NOT condone this type of activity. I am actually sticking up for Disneyland and letting you know how difficult it is for them to stop this. It is obviously not good for our hobby. I have seen this happen in The Sports card Industry and now any cards that is worth something must get slabbed and that is a huge cost to the seller and takes a chunk out of their profit if they choose to sell it.

It is not fair to the honest people who have bough these pins and are now subject to people doubting their being genuine or not and there are really no "EXPERTS" in our community who know beyone a shadow of a doubt about every pin out there. But as mentioned, the more you educate yourselves, the better you will be.

Max collects Vinylmations so I studied everything I can about that one specific area and now we are self proclaimed experts but that is just a small segment of the entire hobby, not even 1 % when you think about it. Disney is trying no doubt by implementing their Mickey Ears backing as well as other features and as we have all discussed, they are hard to knock off because we all know about borders, or do we.

There are 450 people on this forum compared to how many people buy and trade these pins. This is the problem. Most people DONT know about borders, only the more seasoned traders and people who frequent forums like this. Whenever I trade at the parks, I very politely let people know about these issues and how to watch out for it.

And also, many of these people who but smaller lots up to 100 pins on ebay dont all know they are scrappers 99.99999% of the time, they just think its a great deal until told otherwise and 80% of them once they know will no longer support these people by buying their pins.

If you say it the right way, you will not offent ebay buyers and can educate them too and this is also a good start.

The only way to make the problem go away is for people to STOP buying them, not the factories making them. As mentioned with price, it's SUPPLY & DEMAND and obviously there is a demand even if its from uneducated people or then again, people who know but just dont care.....
 
In China EVERYTHING is bootlegged. Just another "benefit" of having most of our products manufactured over there...:rolleyes:

Here's a novel idea: why not have the pins manufactered here in the States? That way Disney would have much more control over the entire process.
 
I, too, think we should help one another out by letting each other know of trades or purchases that were made and received bad pins. If the seller/trader doesn't know and makes it right, that is one thing, but some do it intentionally and those people need to be listed and avoided.
 
In answer to your question "WHY NOT MAKE THEM IN THE STATES" It's all about profit margins. Again, I dont condone counterfieting or scrappers but disney is not in this for their health, they are here to make money and a pin that cost the $0.29 to make in china that they can retail for anywhere from $6.96 - $9.95 would cost them approx. $2.25 - $4.00 here in the states.

Yes they want to stop it but they wont be bringing to the states anytime soon. And if you think about it, every country that has a Disneyland gets them from the same place. Japan does not make their own pins, sure they design them but they are all made in China. Sure Disneyland is a Billion dollar company but think about how many other Billion dollar companies manufacture in China.
 
Let's face it...even if they were made in the States, stuff like this would happen...it would be some worker who sees a value in something by hitting the stamp button a few more times...It'd be very hard to control. Look at how controlling the NBA is with their hologram logo, and even that still gets pirated.
 
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Tell you what, here is an actual TRUE example. I mentioned that I manufacture Car Audio Equipment.
I am not at liberty to give you a specific model number but here is a real life example.

We have an amplifier that is a 2-channel 2 x 200 watts RMS. Coming from China our landed (Includes duty VAT "Value added tax" and all shipping ) cost is $21.73 Coming from Korea which does have far better quality the same amplifier under the same circumstance would be $ 30.97 and finally from the good old USA it would be $58.90. We retail the amplifier to be competitive with other manufactures for $ 79.95. Peopl in certain price ranges and for certain products are not concerned anymore with Made In the USA.

Heck, with few exceptions the cars you buy are barely made in the USA even if they are built here. Its all about profit margins and if people will be willing to pay for it. Sure there are a few USA made amplifier companies in the higher end but the problem is they have Niche sales and are not what the mainstream buyer is spending their money on.
 
I know this country has opened Pandora's Box with regards to cheap labor overseas and there's no way we're going to close it now. I know it's all about profit margins no matter the consequences. Unfortunately, one of the consequences in having mass production of a very large number of products in a country that absolutely does not recognize copyrights is the presence of a huge counterfeit industry. It's never going to go away. Period. We're just going to have to accept the fact that there will always be thousands of these scrappers being produced every day.

And, like you said, if Disney only cares about the bottom line, I doubt much will be done (if anything CAN be done - which I doubt) to shut down the illicit factories as long as they are selling out of their legitimate pins.

That being said, the best we can do is what has been suggested. Educate ourselves (and especially the newbies) on: 1) the existence of these scrappers in the first place; 2) how to spot them; and 3) who to avoid if they are knowingly selling them.

Not much else we can do. Let's just hope it doesn't hurt the hobby too much in the long run. :sad:

Jesse (off the soapbox now :soapbox:)
 
The problem with listing these kind of listings is that now people will think everyone of these pins are a scrapper. Even though I get my DLR pin on card from DLR and then decide to put it in a trader package someone will say it is a scrapper because of these types of listings. I sell trader pins and these types of listings make me cringe! I do my best to make sure no scrappers are sent but someone will say ... "I saw this pin listed as a scrapper in the Forum." I will then have to have them return it and me send them a new pin even though I KNOW it is legit. It is not enough to just list pictures of a pin and say scrapper... We need to know how to identify it from the real pin so that people know if what they receive is real or not. That is the true problem. People are unable to identify the real ones from the scrappers because all they know is someone said that someone offered and they sell scrappers. I am not disputing that these pins may have been scrapped. I am just saying that if you can not identify what makes it a scrapper other than an email sent it only hurts the trade, it doesn't help. OK off my soapbox now....
 
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LOL

Got this "David" to timestamp a picture over email to prove he's real. And he actually did it.... in 12 minutes....

I wonder what I should make him do next? Lick a pin? Stick pin up nose? Pin in ear? Hmm.... I need help DPF!
 
scottydem said:
LOL

Got this "David" to timestamp a picture over email to prove he's real. And he actually did it.... in 12 minutes....

I wonder what I should make him do next? Lick a pin? Stick pin up nose? Pin in ear? Hmm.... I need help DPF!
Click to expand...

I'm a bit confused, honestly, about why you needed to 'prove' that this 'David' is legitimate. Why do you need this proof? Am I missing something here? :confused:

Although, and not to be completely pessimistic about your 'proof,' to me, this doesn't prove anything. What you have is a picture with a timestamp of someone who may or may not be 'David.' Can anyone actually prove the emailer's claim that the photo is of David and not a picture of a random male holding two pins who is claiming to be David just to satisfy your request?
 
Jallenwood, I not only agree but I write countless post about how to spot scrappers & counterfeits and try my best to educate people about what to look for. But I also agree that people who really dont know what to look for see these pins on a list and as soon as they receive one they yell scrapper without even checking. While there are scrappers out there, lets not forget there are also real pins out there too.

I know ROCKE01 very well and know they are 2 of the most honest traders and they alsp spend bank buying REAL pins. I also know they have many books and they cant fit as many pins with the backers on or when it comes to selling 10 - 50 pins that the backs make it way harder.

Too many people think they know and automatically figure it is bad if they saw a picture saying so. Not true. I have heard people say that if a pin is attracted to a magnet it is fake, then I have heard if it is not magnetic it is fake. I took a magnet into Westward Ho and out of 50 or so pins we messed around with, about 15 were magnetic and the rest were not. What does that tell you.

You just cant believe everything you hear. An example I gave is even Disney pins on the rack can have defects.

I also believe what ScottyDem is saying is this is someone from China who contacted him trying to sell him scrappers and counterfeits. He asked th guy to send a pic with him and the pins so he knows he is real. The sad thing is if this is the case, the pin in his left hand is one I have and sell regularily on the Bay for 75 - 100 dollars and that is probably a fake he is holding. I also figure this based on the grammer used in the email.

Scotty, am I right?

Bottom Line. Know your hobby, educate yourself and ask a lot of questions if unsure.
 
The sad thing is how many folks pass these off as legit. I got 3 LE scrappers from other traders at the 10-10 event last month at WDW.
I traded good pins - got scrappers in return.

So sad to see the traders doing this to other collectors.

And yes, I've received these e-mails too.
 
Thank you for your correspondence. We want you to know that we appreciate the time you took to bring this matter to our attention. We protect our intellectual property rights vigorously and we take reports of suspected infringement seriously. However, as you can appreciate, investigations are confidential.We neither reveal our sources nor generally correspond further with them about any investigations.




Please feel free to use our email address tips@disneyantipiracy.com or our Antipiracy voice mail hotline, 818-560-3300, if you want to provide more information about the suspected infringement or to report a suspected infringement in the future.




Very truly yours,




Antipiracy Group, Corporate Legal


The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-0527



Save this info,I did
 
Rocke01, we completely agree - it's just not enough to simply cry "scrapper", there needs to be clear points as to how to differentiate between a real and a scrapper. We personally do our best to provide that and "research pins", if you will. When we come across a scrapper we try our hardest to find means to compare it to an authentic. Then we'll post our findings of the differences on the pin's listing on Pinpics. The problem is, everybody needs to have a guide that'll tell them what potential scrappers are out there so they can look for them in the first place. We appropriately call it "Looking For Trouble!". How does one have any inkling that a pin has been scrapped if there hasn't been any indictation of such? So in essence, these potential scrapper images are both a curse and a blessing.

We know it's difficult to deal with, but the scrapper images just give caution to collectors/traders until concrete evidence and detailed differences between scrappers and the authentics can be obtained.

scottydem...thank you for our new dartboard target picture. LOL
 
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