What would you do in this situation? (Update 01/16/13)

[broncobilly83]

On October 7th, I sent a trade request, which was countered and accepted for:

My:
Pin 92848: DSF - Pin Trader's Delight - Scrooge Mcduck - GWP
Pin 60722: TDR Character Sketch Series - Peter Pan

for their:
Pin 12085 (TDL - Penny Arcade (Scrooge))
Pin 51282 (DisneyShopping.com - Scrooge McDuck's Moneybag Christmas Stocking)

(Note the Scrooges, LOL), and we exchanged addresses and they are right in the next state over. I packed up the items, and sent them the DC number as I usually do, but since they had Zero feedback on PinPics, I decided to wait to mail until I got confirmation of their shipping. When I asked 4 days later for the tracking info, I got:

Honestly have had a crazy week at work and haven't made it to the post office yet. I am headed this afternoon or first thing in the morning

and now we are a week later, and I still do not have the items or at least confirmation they shipped. Should I just give up on this, as I have tried e-mailing a couple of times and gotten no response. These were 2 Scrooges I really wanted too.

 

[VillainousGoof]

Sounds like you were lucky. Good thing you decided to wait instead of shipping immediately...

 

[AgentOfAnarchy]

Ive had my pin get to the US before my pins have been posted but I got a response that he was really busy and I did get the pin. However with no response I might be inclined to give up.

 

[mickeymousje]

I should send him/her a email to ask if they shipped the pins and if not if they are still interested. Otherwise I wouldn't make this trade anymore...
Can always happen that someone is busy and can't ship and he/she did let you know but now you're a week further that's why I should ask what he/she still wants to do this trade. Good luck!

 

[Psycho Pixie]

At one week AFTER they said they would be shipping I would be concerned too. I have however been guilty of late shipping myself, but i try to always communicate and reply immidiatly if someone inquires about ship status.

Email them one more time, with exclamation marks and urgent notice on the title to get their attention. Politely ask if they still want to do the trade. If not, at least your only out the couple bucks of paid shipping you already did. It is a good thing you did not ship yet.

 

[erudolf]

I have a little different perspective on this one....

I DO NOT think it was ok for you to hold the package without telling them first. That is called "holding pins hostage" and when I find out someone has done that to me, and I remember they did it, I won't trade with them again. It is perfectly fine to ask a new trader to send first, but you need to be upfront about it.

Now, think back to when you were a new trader. Weren't you a little weary at first to send pins to someone you don't know? What if this person is doing the EXACT same thing you are? What if they are looking up that DC# and seeing that it hasn't been accepted by the post office yet? If they are looking at that - they probably think YOU are a scammer. So, in that scenario, here the both of you sit thinking that the other person is trying to rip you off.

I would message the person again, first apologizing because you should have let them know that you weren't going to put your pins in the mail until they provided confirmation that they had shipped theirs. Then explain to them that you are still interested in trading but since so much time has past and they don't have any feedback that you would be more comfortable if they shipped first. Then direct them to your feedback so that they can see that you are an established trader because new traders probably don't know about the feedback site either. After that, just sit back and see what happens.

Sorry, but holding pins hostage is a huge pet peeve of mine. I've been slow to ship on occasion and am mortified when a package arrives before I have gotten my pins out. In those cases I apologize profusely and if I still haven't sealed the package throw in an extra pin for my mess up.

 

[broncobilly83]

I said in my original e-mails to him and repeated it again after waiting for 4 days and not hearing anything that I was ready to mail, the pins were packed up and they had their DC number, just let me know when they mail theirs as well. It was the fact they never responded that the pins would be going out that day, the next day, here is your DC number, anything like that that prompted me to hold the package. I sent them the tracking info, and then was ready to drop it off the next morning and I never heard back from them. To me, it is not "holding pins hostage" to expect an equal trade time, i.e. if I mail on one day, I would expect the pins coming to me to be mailed around the same time. I did not think he was a new trader, as his pins show either buying collections or being part of it for a while, I just said there was no feedback I could find.

They even said in their last e-mail they had been busy and had not shipped and now I do not hear anything from them.

 

[erudolf]

I'm just saying that if you didn't specifically say that you weren't putting the package in the mail until they said theirs was also in the mail then the communication was lacking. Put yourself in their shoes. What if you had received an email from them with a tracking number and when you looked it up it showed that the package hadn't been received yet. Would that prompt you to hold onto your package until you saw it update?

I'm not saying their isn't something sketchy going on, especially since they haven't responded. But you have it consider that it might be a breakdown in communication and that the other person is just as confused as you are and doesn't know what to say.

Just because a person may have collected for awhile doesn't mean they aren't new to trading online. I assume anyone with no feedback is new to online trading and do require that they send their pins first, but I'm upfront about it so that there isn't any confusion.

 

[Nekov]

I disagree with what erudolf says.

You don't owe them an apology and by the negative posts by erudolf I would be quick to assume the trader really was erudolf or a friend of the trader. Not saying it is but the spiteful point of views sure make it sound that way.

I sent them the tracking info, and then was ready to drop it off the next morning and I never heard back from them.

This right here is usually a sign of someone trying to scam you. Not all the time but here it definitely sounds like it.

My husband has had this issue many times and the reason I don't trade anywhere unless its in person or if they have positive feedback (Though sometimes even then there are issues).
When you give them the DC# first and let them know you are shipping and then they turn around with excuses of why they haven't sent/can't send theirs out yet or they completely stop responding to you like in this situation a red flag definitely goes up, especially if its weeks and then you don't hear anything from them.

I do get people are busy but when someone is able to get online everyday and do OTHER things for the exception of that one that would literally take them seconds to send you an update, its definitely shady. Even if they don't have access to a computer I don't know a single person that doesn't have a phone to use the internet, if they don't have one then a friend definitely does.

Now I'm not talking about people who really are busy and haven't shipped the pins out yet until they are free but those people don't assume/expect you to send yours first, they tell you or you both agree to wait until they for sure can send theirs out.

But here in this situation, it doesn't sound that way.

If someone stated they were ready to ship and would take it tomorrow, I would have immediately said, "Sorry I won't be able to ship mine for ____ days but I'll keep you updated." But this person completely stopped all communication.

I agree with not shipping the pins until you hear back from them with a DC #, it's not holding pins hostage, it's called common courtesy. No one would want to send pins first only to realize they'll never get pins in return. If they clearly know you have them ready to ship and they avoid you at every turn then I would wait or just forget it as everyone else but erudolf has said.

 

[erudolf]

I disagree with what erudolf says.

You don't owe them an apology and by the negative posts by erudolf I would be quick to assume the trader really was erudolf or a friend of the trader. Not saying it is but the spiteful point of views sure make it sound that way.



This right here is usually a sign of someone trying to scam you. Not all the time but here it definitely sounds like it.

My husband has had this issue many times and the reason I don't trade anywhere unless its in person or if they have positive feedback (Though sometimes even then there are issues).
When you give them the DC# first and let them know you are shipping and then they turn around with excuses of why they haven't sent/can't send theirs out yet or they completely stop responding to you like in this situation a red flag definitely goes up, especially if its weeks and then you don't hear anything from them.

I do get people are busy but when someone is able to get online everyday and do OTHER things for the exception of that one that would literally take them seconds to send you an update, its definitely shady. Even if they don't have access to a computer I don't know a single person that doesn't have a phone to use the internet, if they don't have one then a friend definitely does.

Now I'm not talking about people who really are busy and haven't shipped the pins out yet until they are free but those people don't assume/expect you to send yours first, they tell you or you both agree to wait until they for sure can send theirs out.

But here in this situation, it doesn't sound that way.

If someone stated they were ready to ship and would take it tomorrow, I would have immediately said, "Sorry I won't be able to ship mine for ____ days but I'll keep you updated." But this person completely stopped all communication.

I agree with not shipping the pins until you hear back from them with a DC #, it's not holding pins hostage, it's called common courtesy. No one would want to send pins first only to realize they'll never get pins in return. If they clearly know you have them ready to ship and they avoid you at every turn then I would wait or just forget it as everyone else but erudolf has said.

Seriously?!?! I don't even know what to say to those ignorant comments other than "thanks for reminding me why I was I was steering clear of contributing to this site for the last several weeks.".

The thread asked for opinions and I gave mine. My comments were nt negative, they were encouraging viewing the situation from a different perspective and not assuming the other person automatically bad right off the bat.

Going back to lurking.

 

[tinkerbelle1956]

I had a very similar situation that happens to be a member on the forum . I didn't know that at first . She said, you send your pin as you don't have any feedback . This at the time was a pin pics trade . I had all intention on doing so, but I got sick and hubby cleaned inbox . I thought if she wants to trade, I hope she emails me . Two weeks went by and no email . So, I traded the pin. After some time, she emails me and I apologized, but also said, I didn't care for this type of transaction, too many traders are getting ripped off . Well she flipped out, saying she was going to block me from pin pics, etc
Once while posting I recognized her user ID. I thought how could she say, I didn't have any feedback . My feedback is excellent . My pin pics name is right under my user ID name . I PM'd her and again tried to apologize and never heard back. So I let it go ! I mentioned to another member about what had happened and well I guess she didn't have a good trade experience with her either and said, she's difficult to trade with. So, I never tried again .

 

[starry_solo]

I would give them an opportunity to respond. Life gets in the way. I had a trade set up last week, we ended up doing a multi-pin trade, and I was all set to mail my pins out on Tuesday. Unfortunately, life got in the way and I got sent out of the office for a few days and won't be back in the office til Monday (this is where the closest post office is, otherwise, I have to go about 5-10 miles out of my way to the next post office.) I sent the person the DC # already, but of course, all it's going to say is electronic shipping information received.

So, I'd give them a few days to respond. See if they have references elsewhere and see if they are willing to ship out before they do.

 

[DisneyOlivia]

I agree that it maybe is important to let someone know you're not sending the pin until they do.
Being a new trader, my first pinpics trade the guy said to me that he wanted to receive the pin before sending. This was fine with me as he had hundreds of 'good' references o. Dizpins and it was in France so wouldn't take too long.
If he hadnt told me however, I would be waiting the pin and getting stressed myself.

There is a chance that this user is honestly busy, but also will be expecting your pin any time soon.
It's tough.
Hope it all works out !

 

[PrincessBecky]

Hey Bill,

I don't think holding your pins was wrong per se, especially now that the other party hasn't responded or communicated to you that they are shipping. In the future though, I would be completely upfront about asking the other trader to ship first if they have no feedback. I have asked this of new traders many times and it has never been a problem. If you can show the new trader that you are established and have good feedback they are usually comfortable with sending first...so they can start building feedback as well.

I disagree with what erudolf says.

You don't owe them an apology and by the negative posts by erudolf I would be quick to assume the trader really was erudolf or a friend of the trader. Not saying it is but the spiteful point of views sure make it sound that way.

I just wanted to say that erudolf is one of the nicest, most level-headed traders on this board. She always provides sound advice, regardless if you agree with it or not. And according to PinPics, holding pins "hostage" is technically not allowed, so she was just providing another perspective on the matter.

According to Dizpins Internet Trading Guidelines:

[SIZE=+1]If you are a trader who feels you must receive the package before you ship yours, this is rude pin behavior. By holding the pin "hostage", this conveys the message you don’t trust the other person. The Moderators do not approve of this practice and will not tolerate this if a complaint is made against you.

[/SIZE]So yes, holding pins "hostage" is somewhat frowned upon, but many of us (including myself) require traders with no feedback to send first so we don't get burned. The ONE time I didn't look at feedback and just blindly sent my pin I was burned...never got a pin in return, they deleted their PinPics account, and of course after the fact I realized they had no feedback.

So...personally I feel that:

-Traders with no feedback- OK to ask if they will send pin first
-Traders with established feedback- Not OK to hold pin hostage

And don't go back to lurking erudolf! I always enjoy your posts.

 

[RumsGone]

Just to toss my two cents in: I posted on someone's board here and looked at their pins and pm'd them saying that I was interested in two of their pins. The person said that I was the nice person who had posted on their board and that they would be willing to trade but for some reason my feedback isn't showing up. I know for sure I have feedback and don't know why it isn't showing up. So I told her to talk with a couple members and that they would say nice things about me cause I have traded with these two people multiple times. I have not heard back from this person. Sent a message asking if they had talked to the other two members and if they still wanted to trade with me. Still nothing. I have given up on the fact that I won't be getting the two pins. Which frustrates me by not wanting to trade with anyone here anymore.

 

[dawny]

Oh boy, Erudolf i do not think your opinion was out of line, it was honest and well balnaced, perhpas the comment that was made --was just someone having a rough day and mis understood your "tone"...we all must bare in mind it is soooo difficult to type feelings, you cant see someones face or hear their tone, so we may project our own feelings.

Anywho I am goning to copy paste my super annoying standard reply i send to every request i have. It is typed up and saved on word and saves me time and covers everything i would like to achieve in a positive trade. Anyone may use it for themselves. I trade alot and only had 1 negative response. Someone was kinda insulted--oh well, i moved on. Here it is....
Hi! Great to hearfrom you. I have checked your referencesand agree to the trade/trades below.
I will need an e-mail confirmation that we are a go and youraddress. I will pull the pin/pins frommy traders, but will only hold them for 24hours. If I don’t hear back from you they will goback on (I have just be burnt a few times now with holding pins and loosingtrades to never hear back from folks).
Also due to the insane cost of overseas shipping, thismay/may not influence my decision totrade, so please let me know if you are outside the US.
I will mail your package, lovingly wrapped -within 3 days. I will send a DC# for you to track your pins,It would be great if you could do the same.
Upon receiving your pin/pins I will notify you and leave feedbackon dizpins, please do that for me!
I love Disney pins and love trading, so I hope this is ago! Have a magical day!
DAWNY

my address follows but i didnt leave it because i dont want all of you sending me love letters

Bill in my opinion i think you dodged a bullet. Someone on here did that to me and owes me about $50 in pins and totally disappeared...i am hurt, but wonder if something happened to her?? My trade was on July 11th--i think im not getting the pins!:banghead:

 

[broncobilly83]

Hey Bill,

I don't think holding your pins was wrong per se, especially now that the other party hasn't responded or communicated to you that they are shipping. In the future though, I would be completely upfront about asking the other trader to ship first if they have no feedback. I have asked this of new traders many times and it has never been a problem. If you can show the new trader that you are established and have good feedback they are usually comfortable with sending first...so they can start building feedback as well.

I was not holding specifically because they had no feedback or maybe a "new trader". It was the fact that I e-mailed them the DC number, as I usually do anyone I trade with or sell to and got no response. I usually do not even check feedback and I am sure I have mailed out pins for new people without even batting an eye. The problem was the lack of communication right off the bat, and as you can attest Becky, I am pretty regular with my e-mails if I do not hear back, LOL

 

[Jrdnsmom]

Oh boy, Erudolf i do not think your opinion was out of line, it was honest and well balnaced, perhpas the comment that was made --was just someone having a rough day and mis understood your "tone"...we all must bare in mind it is soooo difficult to type feelings, you cant see someones face or hear their tone, so we may project our own feelings.

Anywho I am goning to copy paste my super annoying standard reply i send to every request i have. It is typed up and saved on word and saves me time and covers everything i would like to achieve in a positive trade. Anyone may use it for themselves. I trade alot and only had 1 negative response. Someone was kinda insulted--oh well, i moved on. Here it is....
Hi! Great to hearfrom you. I have checked your referencesand agree to the trade/trades below.
I will need an e-mail confirmation that we are a go and youraddress. I will pull the pin/pins frommy traders, but will only hold them for 24hours. If I don’t hear back from you they will goback on (I have just be burnt a few times now with holding pins and loosingtrades to never hear back from folks).
Also due to the insane cost of overseas shipping, thismay/may not influence my decision totrade, so please let me know if you are outside the US.
I will mail your package, lovingly wrapped -within 3 days. I will send a DC# for you to track your pins,It would be great if you could do the same.
Upon receiving your pin/pins I will notify you and leave feedbackon dizpins, please do that for me!
I love Disney pins and love trading, so I hope this is ago! Have a magical day!
DAWNY

my address follows but i didnt leave it because i dont want all of you sending me love letters

Bill in my opinion i think you dodged a bullet. Someone on here did that to me and owes me about $50 in pins and totally disappeared...i am hurt, but wonder if something happened to her?? My trade was on July 11th--i think im not getting the pins!:banghead:

Hehehe I remember getting that message, I thought it a good idea, I knew you were a pro.

You know I would message them one last time, explain how you know life gets busy and things happen and we can easily forget, lol, im the worse! and that your not sure wether they just got busy and forgot or have just decided not to trade anymore, but either way you would greatly appreciate an answer, with no hard feelings on your end, then ad if you don't hear back this would be your last attempt to contact them, and your going to move on. I mean I would do something like that. Then if you don't hear back, just avoid trading with them because it sure seems fishy. If you ever get a trade request from them in the future kindly remind them of this moment and decline trade. Good thing you didn't send your pins.

 

[gbdb4ever]

Just to toss my two cents in: I posted on someone's board here and looked at their pins and pm'd them saying that I was interested in two of their pins. The person said that I was the nice person who had posted on their board and that they would be willing to trade but for some reason my feedback isn't showing up. I know for sure I have feedback and don't know why it isn't showing up. So I told her to talk with a couple members and that they would say nice things about me cause I have traded with these two people multiple times. I have not heard back from this person. Sent a message asking if they had talked to the other two members and if they still wanted to trade with me. Still nothing. I have given up on the fact that I won't be getting the two pins. Which frustrates me by not wanting to trade with anyone here anymore.

Just so you know, feedback does not show up on PMs. But all the person had to do was look back at your post and they would have seen that you have 9 feedbacks, 100% positive.

 

[broncobilly83]

Bumping this thread after almost 3 months as there is an update

The person contacted me last week via Google Chat as I guess I sent them a trade request for one of the 2 pins original part of the deal, and we were talking and they mentioned things came (family matters) and they apologized, and we worked out a new trade. I asked them to e-mail me back the trade particulars with their address again to confirm the deal, and I would ship out on Saturday as they said they would.

Once again, I told them I would send them the DC number and wanted them to send me confirmation of shipping before I mailed, especially after what happened, and now once again, I still have not heard back from them, gotten the package, or even gotten any form of delivery confirmation. I have e-mailed them now 3 times asking for it, and ended today's e-mail with:

I am still waiting on the confirmation of shipment before I send out your package. This seems very similar to the non trade last time. If you backing out, that is fine, just let me know, as I pulled these items from my traders, but do not see that you pulled yours

If I do not hear back from you one way or another soon, I am going to forward all the e-mails and the chats to a PinPics moderator

Should this be reported if I never hear back from them? Will it do any good? I mean, this is twice now they commit to a trade, do not communicate afterwards, etc. It makes me wonder how many other people might have mailed pins first and not gotten anything in return

 

[Psycho Pixie]

not so much a "report" since the trade is not being completed, but a good FYI for the pinpic mods.... If they get reports from other members saying they never received their pins, they will start to see a pattern. I have only ever needed to report 2 pinpics people.... 1 for never shipping my pins, when I had shipped mine. ((never got em back, but the person is no longer a pinpic member)) and 1 for this sort of situation.

And I stated on the report that the trade was not completed, but that this had happened 3x with the same person over the course of 4 months. Obviously if no pins have shipped, the pinpic mods cannot do anything, but now the person is on their radar. It would not surprise me if they set up trades and do not ship just to see if the trade is forgotten and they get their pins free. I think once or twice in my heavy trade pinpic days I lost track and didn't receive one or two.... but now I shall never know.

 

[Merryweather]

If you are not out of your pins, I am not sure if contacting Pinpics would be justified. Also, you can't hold them responsible for google chat probably. Just for e-mail initiated via Pinpics.

I can see how annoying the situation is, but since you did not mail yours, you are not exactly cheated out of pins.

I would steer clear of this other trader from now on just to avoid more anxiety.

Can you pls PM me what were the pin numbers? Maybe I can hunt them for you

 

[markheardjr]

I am guilty of mailing late a few times. Sometimes things happen. This week my wife's car was broken into and now this morning my grandma died and now I'm coming down with a stupid sinus infection. If I'm later than I'd want someone else to be I usually apologize or toss in a GWP pin or button or something for their trouble. Communication is best, even if the other person is annoyed with how long it takes.

 

[jjgasman]

So, what should you do?
a) the other trader is honest, but irresponsible - you send your pins, and wait and wait and wait and get aggravated; maybe you get them, maybe not
b) the other trader is dishonest - you send your pins, and you never get new ones
c) the other traders has been honest and really tied up - let them send theirs first

The only logical solution is C.

Good luck.

 

[suzanneb]

i think this trader is now banned on Pin Pics...too many complaints...maybe he is just having a lot of bad luck, but so many times???