Business ethics Question

[drb195]

When Selling online, if two parties agree on price and exchange paypal and address info, is this a done deal? example, someone offers a pin for $10 and you reply that you would like to buy it. seller then says yes it is. what is your address and I will send you my paypal. Seller then comes back and says I undervalued this pin, I now want $35 for it. I have not yet made payment, just waiting to go to the bank to deposit money before I did. Is this acceptable behavior for selling?

 

[chroll]

no. that's a d move. an honest person would honor their price, unless it was an obvious typo (i.e. $2.00 for a $200 pin or something).

 

[ChickenLittle]

When Selling online, if two parties agree on price and exchange paypal and address info, is this a done deal? example, someone offers a pin for $10 and you reply that you would like to buy it. seller then says yes it is. what is your address and I will send you my paypal. Seller then comes back and says I undervalued this pin, I now want $35 for it. I have not yet made payment, just waiting to go to the bank to deposit money before I did. Is this acceptable behavior for selling?

Seller should honor the stated price

 

[drb195]

no. that's a d move. an honest person would honor their price, unless it was an obvious typo (i.e. $2.00 for a $200 pin or something).

I can understand that kind of typo. but that's not what happened. I just want to be sure I know if I am in the right or if I have no beef.

 

[dpotts]

I wouldn't deal with anyone who did that to me unless there was a very good reason (like a typo).

 

[derrickb]

Walk away and find someone else that has the pin, and don't deal with them again.

 

[Lamorak]

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, so this is a personal opinion.

Ethically, there was an agreed upon price and the seller should honor it.

Contractually, the exchange of goods had not occured and both the seller or buyer has the right to negate the deal.

I'm thinking that the best course of action is to either walk away or work on the price some more by negotiating the price down, since it began at $10 and jumped to $35.

 

[fluffycat1]

Bad business and bad karma. Run away and shame on that seller

 

[drb195]

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, so this is a personal opinion.

Ethically, there was an agreed upon price and the seller should honor it.

Contractually, the exchange of goods had not occured and both the seller or buyer has the right to negate the deal.

I'm thinking that the best course of action is to either walk away or work on the price some more by negotiating the price down, since it began at $10 and jumped to $35.

I see exactly what your saying, however had I already paid, the seller would have pulled the same thing. then I would be out the money, and the pin.

 

[Lamorak]

I see exactly what your saying, however had I already paid, the seller would have pulled the same thing. then I would be out the money, and the pin.

Had you paid, then the seller would be obligated to send the pin or the money back. If he kept the money, then, contractually, he would be obligated to give you the pin.

If you feel that the seller would have kept both, then it is best to simply walk away. Since no money has been exchanged, then you may have the posibility of guilt working on your side and if you are willing to pay a little more, you might be able to get the pin for say... $20 to $25. At this point, there is nothing to lose for trying. Yet again, if you feel that the person is out to rip you off. Walk away.

 

[drb195]

Had you paid, then the seller would be obligated to send the pin or the money back. If he kept the money, then, contractually, he would be obligated to give you the pin.

If you feel that the seller would have kept both, then it is best to simply walk away. Since no money has been exchanged, then you may have the posibility of guilt working on your side and if you are willing to pay a little more, you might be able to get the pin for say... $20 to $25. At this point, there is nothing to lose for trying. Yet again, if you feel that the person is out to rip you off. Walk away.

I did walk away. I really am curious if I can register any complaints or should I just warn people about said seller

 

[dpotts]

If he'd done it after you paid and wouldn't issue a refund, you'd have been able to file a claim against them with PayPal. But without money changing hands, don't bother.

 

[Lamorak]

I did walk away. I really am curious if I can register any complaints or should I just warn people about said seller

It would be my guess that any complaints, for a one time incident, wouldn't go very far. If this seller has an established history of this type of behaviour, then a complaint might help. Without knowing the full details of the seller and whether the $10 was a posted price or a price that was pulled out of thin air, it's difficult to determine whether or not it's worth your time and effort.

Perhaps I'm very forgiving and since no money was exchanged, I'd chalk it up to an honest mistake and walk away. Others may feel compelled to push that complaint button. There is no wrong answer. It's up to you, I guess.

 

[Shannon]

I would be really annoyed. That is a d.b. move on their part. Love your avatar btw.

 

[chroll]

without complaining, how would we know if the seller has a history of doing this?

 

[Zagales14]

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, so this is a personal opinion.

Ethically, there was an agreed upon price and the seller should honor it.

Contractually, the exchange of goods had not occured and both the seller or buyer has the right to negate the deal.

I'm thinking that the best course of action is to either walk away or work on the price some more by negotiating the price down, since it began at $10 and jumped to $35.

I see exactly what your saying, however had I already paid, the seller would have pulled the same thing. then I would be out the money, and the pin.

Had you paid, then the seller would be obligated to send the pin or the money back. If he kept the money, then, contractually, he would be obligated to give you the pin.

If you feel that the seller would have kept both, then it is best to simply walk away. Since no money has been exchanged, then you may have the posibility of guilt working on your side and if you are willing to pay a little more, you might be able to get the pin for say... $20 to $25. At this point, there is nothing to lose for trying. Yet again, if you feel that the person is out to rip you off. Walk away.

Disclaimer: This is not to be considered legal advice.

Little bit of Contracts 101:

What you created was a bilateral contract, where both yourself as the buyer, and the other party as seller, promised to each other an exchange of legal detriments for legal benefits. Essentially, the seller offered to sell you a pin (providing you the pin is his legal detriment) for $10 (benefit), and you accepted the terms (Benefit and exchange reverse in your case). This exchange is called consideration, a requirement for a contract. The key here is to confirm that mutual assent existed. Mutual assent is the indication that one party accepted the other parties' offer. This is determined on an objective standard, and evidenced by the words or conduct used in the communications between the parties.

(The exchange of paypal information strengthens your argument in demonstrating the intent of the parties to execute a contract)

It seems to me that you indeed had a contract.

In reality, if you wanted to pursue legal action over this (which would not be intelligent considering it's not worth the $25), you would be entitled to the pin, or your $10 in return, PLUS the difference between your $10 and the current market value of the pin. The courts typically aim at putting the non-breaching party in the same position he/she would have been had the contract been carried through fully. So if you contracted for $10 on a pin worth $35, you would get your $10, plus the additional $25 so that you could turn around and purchase the same pin elsewhere.

REALITY: Take your money, and head elsewhere...

 

[Lamorak]

If there is a complaint, then it would be based on ethics. Assuming that the price was posted and the deal was going to be done; yet the seller backed out because they wanted more money for the pin.

I don't believe the complaint should be filed based on a breach of contract, since no money or goods where exchanged.

 

[Zagales14]

If there is a complaint, then it would be based on ethics. Assuming that the price was posted and the deal was going to be done; yet the seller backed out because they wanted more money for the pin.

I don't believe the complaint should be filed based on a breach of contract, since no money or goods where exchanged.

Money or goods do not have to be exchanged for a contract to exist. An exchange of promises indicating that money and goods will be exchanged, and any of the parties relying on this information would be enough to create a contract. On paypal, he may not argue 'breach of contract' in the real world -- say if this were a vehicle -- then the suit in court would be breach of contract.

 

[Lamorak]

Money or goods do not have to be exchanged for a contract to exist. An exchange of promises indicating that money and goods will be exchanged, and any of the parties relying on this information would be enough to create a contract. On paypal, he may not argue 'breach of contract' in the real world -- say if this were a vehicle -- then the suit in court would be breach of contract.

I agree. A verbal contract is equally binding, but is less likely to be something that wins you a court case over having a written contract or an exchange of goods with receipts.

Since this is generally the age of email and other electronic written forms of communication, there is very likely a written trail of the agreement. And in that case, it has something a little more solid upon which to stand.

Good thing I'm not a lawyer, as I think I kinda suck at it.

 

[Zagales14]

I agree. A verbal contract is equally binding, but is less likely to be something that wins you a court case over having a written contract or an exchange of goods with receipts.

Since this is generally the age of email and other electronic written forms of communication, there is very likely a written trail of the agreement. And in that case, it has something a little more solid upon which to stand.

Yeap! There would be other means based on the communication he had with the seller (according to what has been explained here) of recovery, like -- if you wanna look it up (the nerd in me would, lol) promissory estoppel leading to a constructive contract, called quasi-contract --... but I think there would be enough here alone to consider it a contract.

Also, I don't think you would make a poor attorney. It's about knowing the many laws that the average person does not, and equipped with that knowledge, you can find loopholes and create arguments that others may not even think possible. Plus, by naming concepts using unrelated names, or better yet, latin words, you can charge more!! Haha... $200 for every latin word people don't understand!!

 

[docfish2u]

If you tried to buy the pin here from another member I would leave a neutral feedback for them and say why you did it. This would be to warn other possible buyers.

 

[dawny]

yeh what David said. Sorry this happened.

 

[starry_solo]

In reality, if you wanted to pursue legal action over this (which would not be intelligent considering it's not worth the $25), you would be entitled to the pin, or your $10 in return, PLUS the difference between your $10 and the current market value of the pin. The courts typically aim at putting the non-breaching party in the same position he/she would have been had the contract been carried through fully. So if you contracted for $10 on a pin worth $35, you would get your $10, plus the additional $25 so that you could turn around and purchase the same pin elsewhere.

REALITY: Take your money, and head elsewhere...

DISCLAIMER: NOT BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE.

Additional info needed. You said you had to go deposit the funds to pay the person via PayPal. Did the seller give you a deadline to pay, which was not met (a time of the essence clause)? If this is the case then the terms were not met and the seller's performance is excused.

 

[drb195]

DISCLAIMER: NOT BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE.

Additional info needed. You said you had to go deposit the funds to pay the person via PayPal. Did the seller give you a deadline to pay, which was not met (a time of the essence clause)? If this is the case then the terms were not met and the seller's performance is excused.

No, there was no time constraint

 

[Psycho Pixie]

I did walk away. I really am curious if I can register any complaints or should I just warn people about said seller

for DPF: you can always let the MODs know, even if it is not something they can/will take action on, they can always file it away in case it happens again to another person.