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Announcement An Open Letter to DPF

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Announcement An Open Letter to DPF
D

dancecats

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Speaking on behalf of DPF Staff, it has come to our attention that several issues have continued to escalate in severity. While we as Staff have been aware of these problems and quietly working with those who have sought our assistance, we believe that these situations have reached the point where they must be addressed directly and straight-on. The 'big three,' we believe, are a certain Facebook page, forum drama, and internet bullying - and all of them will be addressed, so keep reading.

First, and the easiest to address, is that delightfully controversial Facebook page that likely has become a guilty pleasure for some and a source of unimaginable pain for others. Here's the thing about the internet: when the internet is anonymous, the internet can (and often does) get mean. While it's easy to blame DPF as being the source for the drama posted anonymously on that Facebook site, it isn't the only online social media site that provides fodder for vicious gossip. Those who are intent to post cruel comments will find inspiration anywhere.

Furthermore, you need to remember that DPF Staff have no more authority to do anything about that Facebook page than any of you do. Since everyone knows (or should know) the true nature of that page, there is no reason to ever visit it if you find it so upsetting. Why do you need to know what cruel things might be said about you or your friends by unknown individuals? In this instance, ignorance truly is bliss. But if the page bothers you, report it to Facebook's moderators - and if they insist on maintaining that the page isn't problematic, maybe you should pursue it further through other means.

The second and third are best addressed together as they're often conflated: forum drama versus internet bullying. First, let's just call things like they are: as long as there have been forums, especially collectible-based forums, there has been and there will be drama. Drama exists on forums simply because you have people coming together, sharing opinions (some stronger and more forcefully than others), and guess what ... not everyone is going to agree with each other. And that's perfectly acceptable; when two (or more) people agree all of the time, at least one of them has stopped thinking. The thing is to disagree in a mature and respectful manner without allowing the thread to escalate into an overly heated drama bomb that must be closed before it explodes.

If you know that one person just rubs you the wrong way and you are incapable of maintaining a civil discourse, ignore him/her. Grim wrote an extremely helpful guide on how to accomplish this, which may be found here: http://disneypinforum.com/showthread...-quot-a-member I suggest that a few of our members (not naming names) might try using it. Or better yet, if you know that you've got a problem with a person, just avoid threads that you see that particular person has posted in so you avoid the temptation to respond and create or escalate drama. You've heard the expression 'Do Not Feed the Trolls' ... if you don't provide fodder for drama nor respond to it, the drama llamas will starve. It's just that simple.

Internet bullying, on the other hand, is much more difficult. We on the DPF Staff have a zero tolerance for it, end of line. Bullying will defined as behavior including, but certainly not limited to, using pressure or intimidation, threats, harassment, and any conduct defined under internet legislation. If you believe you have been a victim of bullying on the forum or see internet bullying, please don't hesitate to contact DPF Staff, either directly or through the report icon, and we will look into it immediately.

We also are working on policy changes that will be implemented in future, so please stay tuned. If you have any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to contact any of the DPF Staff. As always, we are here to help and just a mouse click away.

All the best,
DPF Staff
 
I can't believe that there is such things going on away from the forums. Internet bullying is horrible something that I myself have endured and the repercussions of that made for some nasty things to happen to me which I wouldn't want anybody else to ever feel.

C'mon guys and girlies it's not right :(
 
Well said!

Snow said:
I can't believe that there is such things going on away from the forums. Internet bullying is horrible something that I myself have endured and the repercussions of that made for some nasty things to happen to me which I wouldn't want anybody else to ever feel.

C'mon guys and girlies it's not right :(
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I am so sorry that you were a victim of internet bullying. I hope that it has stopped and that you were able to rise above.
 
It's really disappointing that people need to be told to act like civilized adults. They're just pins folks. Let's share the fun of the hobby, not get mired down in the muck. As my mom told me and Thumper told her,

[video=youtube;Wui-PNqJrxs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wui-PNqJrxs[/video]
 
Yes it's happening on facebook ,it's horrible ,I know a few members here that are really getting slammed over there
 
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At this point, even though it's only been a few months, I despise trading on facebook in all the groups and pages. There are SO MANY people who just love tearing people down because of stupid reasons, like maybe they're new in trading and collecting and don't know all the rules yet, or maybe they just don't have that much money to spend on pins so what they have to trade isn't all super rare stuff, but that is no reason to be mean to them and make them feel like they don't belong in the trading community. I have had to deal with extremely rude people who only want to take advantage of you, and people that are so childish that they will take one thing you said or maybe a mistake you made and just rub it in and make you feel horrible and make sure everyone knows about it. Several of them recently, actually. And I hate it. I almost want to delete my facebook account, that's how bad it's gotten. I really hope people here are better than those terrible people on facebook.
 
Any time that a large group of people come together there will surely be problems. People from very different backgrounds, beliefs etc. will cause a certain amount of "drama" but regardless of all of those things, no one should feel attacked or ganged up on in this forum. There are groups of people that tend to jump into conversations simply to support a friend but it only causes more problems. The majority of this forum members are adults, we need to act that way. I have been guilty of forum fighting, even the most even tempered person can get fed up with some of the "look at me" or "permanent pity party" memebers instigate problems and stir up emotions that inevitably cause blow ups. Everyone is guilty of something, no one is 100% innocent in every single instance. The goal for everyone should be to treat people the way we would like to be treated and to ultimately just not say anything before saying something you will regret......myself included.

As for the "certain facebook page" it is run by cowards that find joy in tormenting others. It's very easy for people to talk big and bold ....anonymously. I went to that page after another memeber contacted me because they were being attacked by name and felt like their lives we ruined because of it. Obviously an overreaction but to them it was devestaing. My first and only interaction at that page was apparently too much for them to handle, they banned me from their trashy page because they can only make nasty statements while cowering behind annonimity, they can't actually go head to head with someone calling them out. Those people can only make two line nasty comments and then hide. They are your typical bullies, they pick on those that they perceive as weak or unable to be just as nasty and hurtful as they are. My best advice to any and everyone is to never, ever read that garbage. Do you really care what gutless, wimpy losers say about you while hiding behind a curtain? Respect yourselves and just stay away.

I cannot agree more with Steph's recommendation about avoiding threads that are posted by someone that you have tension with. The easiest way to end a problem is to avoid starting one. If you cannot stand threads that are personal or depressing in nature, don't read them. If someone rubs you the wrong way...BLOCK them! It is quite easy and then you will never have to have your eyes offended by their writing.


Be excellent to each other!

 
Well said.

on another note, you can always make use of the ignore feature.

I'm actually currently working on making it even better where you won't even see any ignored posts/threads at all if they are on your IL.
 
I really appreciate the attempts to end this ridiculousness. However I do have a few points I would like to address;

While it is completely understandable that the page cannot be taken down by anyone (and certainly not Facebook, I've made about fifty reports), I do think there should be repercussions HERE on DPF for those that are seen to be engaging in activity there. If those members are harassing other members (on and about DPF), they should not be allowed on this website, in my opinion. That type of vile and despicable hatred shouldn't get the privilege of using DPF.

Yes, the ignore button works well to avoid seeing posts from those you don't want to see. However, people can still see you. Always. This is the problem. These individuals are using what they see, here, posted by others, here, and making "confessions" about people there, based upon that information. So while the harassed can ignore that person, that person can still see them constantly.

I personally do not visit the Facebook page any longer. There were a few posts about me. I don't know who made them, and frankly I don't care. But I do feel bad for some of my friends who see things about them still. Yes, they shouldn't look. Obviously. But somehow they do (sometimes people link people to things that are about them because they think they "should see" or something). But it is hurtful for them and ridiculous.

I would love to see a blocking feature. This way you block that person from seeing you, and from you seeing them. Wah-la! Of course this would only work for people that were really targeting you, and I hope that isn't happening here, but yeah. It's getting extremely hostile here. :( DPF really isn't the place it once was (same goes for the pin trading community as a whole).

I really do appreciate action being taken though. It means a lot that voices are being heard! Its comforting to know that when people are sending in complaints or reports that they are being reacted to. So thank you to all the mods!
 
Cicada said:
Well said.

on another note, you can always make use of the ignore feature.

I'm actually currently working on making it even better where you won't even see any ignored posts/threads at all if they are on your IL.
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While it's fine to lose sight of entire posts from ignored people, I don't want to lose being able to see an entire thread just because an ignored person posted in it. Seems a bit extreme.
 
Someone just posted on facebook that this so called facebook page was reported and delete by facebook
which I think is great
 
Both pages have been taken down :) In case you were unaware, there were not 1, not 2, but 3 "Confessions" pages. One of which was removed by the creator while the other 2 remained active. After countless reports were made by many...many...many people, including myself, the 2 remaining pages were finally shut down as of yesterday. I would like to address that Elysions' comments strike a very valid argument; I have been made aware of 4 out of the 5 admins from that main page and ALL are prolonged members here who have gathered ammunition to attack others there. They should most definitely be held accountable for their actions, as Facebook even temporarily banned their personal accounts, but will DPF hold them responsible? No, but that's ok because it is a true testament to what a collective group of people, with a common goal, can accomplish. If we, as a group, were able to take down those 2 humiliating, hateful and harassing pages: than we can accomplish anything when we work together!

That being said, a report was just sent this morning about a fellow DPF member that continually messages me and my partner to harass and attack us on here. DPF is not immune to these types of hateful actions and hopefully appropriate measures are taken to address said individual.

"A Change is Gonna Come" - Sam Cooke
 
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ILuvAriel922 said:
but will DPF hold them responsible?

No, but that's ok because it is a true testament to what a collective group of people, with a common goal, can accomplish. If we, as a group, were able to take down those 2 humiliating, hateful and harassing pages: than we can accomplish anything when we work together!
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For the admins of DPF, I would ask what they would do if they were made aware of Facebook or Pinpics operations to deprive traders of pins or money, would they take steps to insure that those people were not allowed to be active on DPF, or would they allow them to trade/sell here until they ripped off people? Is this that different of a situation? Private groups can deny service to someone for no reason. Although considering that people get banned and come back under new names, I would doubt how effective it would be.

For the second, people already use the word of mouth system to find out who the bad eBay sellers are. Perhaps a similar path can be taken here. I'm not on Facebook, but I could see one of the pages, because it was public. Don't know what the other two pages were. I sort of have some idea on the perpetrators, but I would take a PM with a list of names to avoid.
 
ILuvAriel922 said:
Both pages have been taken down :) In case you were unaware, there were not 1, not 2, but 3 "Confessions" pages. One of which was removed by the creator while the other 2 remained active. After countless reports were made by many...many...many people, including myself, the 2 remaining pages were finally shut down as of yesterday. I would like to address that Elysions' comments strike a very valid argument; I have been made aware of 4 out of the 5 admins from that main page and ALL are prolonged members here who have gathered ammunition to attack others there. They should most definitely be held accountable for their actions, as Facebook even temporarily banned their personal accounts, but will DPF hold them responsible? No, but that's ok because it is a true testament to what a collective group of people, with a common goal, can accomplish. If we, as a group, were able to take down those 2 humiliating, hateful and harassing pages: than we can accomplish anything when we work together!

That being said, a report was just sent this morning about a fellow DPF member that continually messages me and my partner to harass and attack us on here. DPF is not immune to these types of hateful actions and hopefully appropriate measures are taken to address said individual.

"A Change is Gonna Come" - Sam Cooke
Click to expand...

Hey look! Mike is back!
 
ILuvAriel922 said:
Both pages have been taken down :) In case you were unaware, there were not 1, not 2, but 3 "Confessions" pages. One of which was removed by the creator while the other 2 remained active. After countless reports were made by many...many...many people, including myself, the 2 remaining pages were finally shut down as of yesterday. I would like to address that Elysions' comments strike a very valid argument; I have been made aware of 4 out of the 5 admins from that main page and ALL are prolonged members here who have gathered ammunition to attack others there. They should most definitely be held accountable for their actions, as Facebook even temporarily banned their personal accounts, but will DPF hold them responsible? No, but that's ok because it is a true testament to what a collective group of people, with a common goal, can accomplish. If we, as a group, were able to take down those 2 humiliating, hateful and harassing pages: than we can accomplish anything when we work together!

That being said, a report was just sent this morning about a fellow DPF member that continually messages me and my partner to harass and attack us on here. DPF is not immune to these types of hateful actions and hopefully appropriate measures are taken to address said individual.

"A Change is Gonna Come" - Sam Cooke
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Let me reiterate this point since it seems to have gone by the wayside: DPF Staff have no authority outside of DPF. We are responsible for our little corner of the internet and that is it, no more and no less. We have/had no more influence over the way that particular Facebook page (or pages) than anyone else here does/did.

That being said, the requests for DPF Staff to hold members who make vicious, hurtful posts on other sites accountable here on DPF because they're also DPF members just isn't viable or reasonable. It's the equivalent of asking to prosecute Mickey Mouse in California for crimes he committed in Florida. Mickey has residences in both states, but the offenses were committed in Florida; the State of California has no jurisdiction to prosecute. We (being DPF Staff) can't hold anyone accountable for anything that happens off of DPF.

It's one thing for Facebook to have taken down 'that page' and to have held its administrators accountable by temporarily banning their personal pages as well for one simple reason: all of those pages are (or were) on Facebook. Facebook is taking care of its own site and holding users accountable for actions done on its site. The personal pages were on Facebook; it would be a different story and quite unreasonable for Facebook to ask DPF or Pin Pics to ban those administrators' accounts for their participation in 'that page'.

As such, it's equally unreasonable for members to ask DPF to punish our members HERE for conduct elsewhere. Those who are inclined to post malicious content about people will find it anywhere or just make it up, not just from DPF, so participation here won't necessarily be a source of information. If you have a problem with a member HERE on DPF, please use the ignore feature, contact DPF Staff, or use the Report Post option (it's the triangle with the exclamation point) and it will be dealt with. If you have a problem with a member on another site, you'll have to address it with that forum's moderation staff.
 
dancecats said:
That being said, the requests for DPF Staff to hold members who make vicious, hurtful posts on other sites accountable here on DPF because they're also DPF members just isn't viable or reasonable. It's the equivalent of asking to prosecute Mickey Mouse in California for crimes he committed in Florida. Mickey has residences in both states, but the offenses were committed in Florida; the State of California has no jurisdiction to prosecute. We (being DPF Staff) can't hold anyone accountable for anything that happens off of DPF.
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I understand the example you are giving and what you mean. It makes total sense that you can't hold people responsible for what they do all over the internet.

That said, there is still a qustion to be asked: Is DPF (as a CA resident) giving shelter and ammunition to Mickey Mouse (a FL offender)?
 
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Merryweather said:
I understand the example you are giving and what you mean. It makes total sense that you can't hold people responsible for what they do all over the internet.

That said, there is still a qustion to be asked: Is DPF (as a CA resident) giving shelter and ammunition to Mickey Mouse (a FL offender)?
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Actually the admins of the Confessions page aren't the ones that originally wrote the confessions. They were submitted from a google program and then the admins posted them. I know for a fact that some were so bad even the admins wouldn't post them to the page.
 
Merryweather said:
I understand the example you are giving and what you mean. It makes total sense that you can't hold people responsible for what they do all over the internet.

That said, there is still a qustion to be asked: Is DPF (as a CA resident) giving shelter and ammunition to Mickey Mouse (a FL offender)?
Click to expand...

DPF is not the state, this is not a court of law, or anything similar. It's not a business, so it's not even bound by the laws of public accommodation, like Facebook would be. This is a private website, and not bound by the same rules. If they wanted to ban someone for an arbitrary reason like collecting butt pins or for wearing their keepers on their trading lanyard, they could.

But if we are going to continue on this sort of equivalencies. People are routinely denied from something after something happened somewhere else. If something turns up in a background check, people are denied employment or housing. Few would interview, let alone hire anyone even suspected of fraud or embezzlement to handle money for them. Few would offer housing to anyone with a history of crimes against children, if there was a chain of evidence even if there was no conviction. Canada will deny entry into their country for someone convicted of a DUI, if they don't have a waiver. What you do in one place, routinely has consequences somewhere else. And I'm pretty sure that if someone were to learn that their location was the place where a suspected criminal "found" their victims, they would take whatever steps were at that disposal to deny that person future access, even if the actual "incident" happened elsewhere. And being a private website, DPF has a lot of steps.

I understand DPF can't react to everything, everywhere at anytime. But this is a repeating situation, that has escalated to the point where they felt the need to make a public statement. This isn't just he said/she said, there apparently were 3 walls of "evidence," and I'm guessing there are probably also personal communications and in person incidents. Extraordinary situations, require unique resolutions. It's not that DPF CAN'T do anything, it's that they are choosing not to, and then claiming false equivalences for their inaction. The thing is, I'm not even involved in what is going on. Don't do Facebook, don't even have a personal page. Not part of any group of friends that has been affected by this. But we all know this situation has been going on a long time, and has contributed to numerous drama bombs going off here. And then this wall of "can't do anything"... it's routinely given as a reason to let injustices continue, especially when it comes with bullying. So seeing it play out here, as a bystander is depressing and discouraging.
 
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