PIN & POP A Poll and Discussion: Pin and Pop Inspection Process, What Are Your Thoughts?

[TheMickeyMouseRules]

This week, I have had on average 1 pin trade cancel each day for a blemish on brand new, 'out of the box' pins. Frustrating... just a little bit.

Some of my thoughts on this:

1) in many cases with the provided large photo the blemish is not seen... is this really a flaw then? (if a tree falls in the forest...)​

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2) would a trader who declines have accepted the pin if it had been traded in person?​

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3) is it Pinandpop's role to enable the traders who are ISO the most perfect of the cheap trinkets out there?​

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4) there are not enough perfect pins to go around. Selective traders might end up kicking themselves for creating more competition in the pin community for perfect pins by encouraging Pinandpop to inspect at this level.​

I have been mostly passive on this topic, but I would like my voice to be heard saying:

Pins are not perfect, they are cheap mass produced objects.
All pin collectors should find their own way in this hobby and take responsibility for their own collections.
Pinandpop must not be expected to enable the pickiest traders in this hobby.

ie, retrade anyone?
(we are pin traders after all.)​

I look forward to DPF's constructive discussion on this topic. Please feel free to post:

• In support of less inspection

or

• In support of the current level of inspection.

 

[ViciousLady]

I might be totally wrong here @TheMickeyMouseRules, but I thought that one of the major draws for people to trade through Pin&Pop is this inspection/verification?

Personally I have only done one trade arcade and I was sent a photo of one pin that had a minor factory flaw, and I accepted it anyway because I wanted that pin!
I also wasn't sent a photo of a pin that had numerous scratches visible to the naked eye, but I didn't make a big deal of it because...I still wanted that pin.

Every collector has their own criteria for their pins, and some people use pins as 'investments' which might account for the need for authentication/backer cards/flawlessness.

I will say that the verification process reminds me a little of 'card grading' which is a similar system for card collectors where a card is sent in to be authenticated and any flaws lower its 'grade'. Many pin sellers (fantasy pins) already do this sort of grading system where the best least blemished pins are ranked and sold at the top value and pins with enamel dips or minor flaws are sold as a slight discount. I personally think that this takes the hobby in a direction I'd personally rather not see it go (we already deal with so many scalpers).

All that to say - In my opinion the current system seems a little too slow for the base of people utilizing it, BUT it clearly fills a niche in the pin trading world that some people find helpful. I would personally rather trade with people 1 on 1 either in person or swapping photos. I understand there's an element of risk in that, but things like rating systems and building good communities (like this one) help minimize that.

 

[Sithathoriunet]

I rely on Pin & Pop for authentication, and notification if there is a major flaw, like a big black mark on a character's face, which has happened. I'm just checking for anything that I would notice if the trader and I had exchanged photos like a "regular" trade.

I'm not sure if traders have gotten more picky, or if there's a trigger happy element to cancelling, like a "if I get sent a photo that means there's something wrong so I should cancel" type of thing, you know? And sometimes the super close up photos make a flaw seem more noticeable than it actually is IRL.

I try to ask myself, "If I had received this pin in this condition directly from Disney, would I want to go to the trouble to insist on receiving a new one?" There are absolutely instances where that happens, I know. But most of the time, it just is what it is, because pins aren't perfect.

 

[TheMickeyMouseRules]

I might be totally wrong here @TheMickeyMouseRules, but I thought that one of the major draws for people to trade through Pin&Pop is this inspection/verification?

Interesting. I actually am hearing more and more that the level of blemish identification is disappointing to pinandpop users. I see the level of particularness as something that happened because the loudest voices (the squeeky wheels) will be those who are unhappy with the trade pin received. I don't complain when I receive a perfect pin, I also don't complain when I receive a flawed pin, so my voice has been silent.

 

[Ghosthostchelsea]

I’ve had quite a few blemishes on pins that I have accepted because they are not easily visible on the zoomed out picture.

I have occasionally seen a note that a flaw is not visible to the naked eye, I wish that was standard. I’ve been surprised with a few pins that I have accepted with flaws because I wanted the pin and when I got the pin in hand, I couldn’t really see it.

 

[hopemax]

IMO, I think people originally attracted to the service, did so to deal with the "is a pin fake?" or "I don't want to be scammed," part of the equation.

It has turned into this half grading system, but not really, because the same pin can be rated differently upon re-trade. Authentic one time, Uncertain another. This is bad.

I think it's feeding an unrealistic expectation on what the quality of cheap, mass-produced souvenir goods should be. People don't trade this way in person. This is bad.

I've said before that my distinction between flaw and blemish is if I can see it, if it's on a table or displayed in a book or frame it's a flaw and should probably be disclosed. If you can only see it by bringing the pin up to your eye, it's a blemish and people need to be realistic about these pins. If it takes magnification, get right out.

The fact that it's moving away from its original purpose ( avoiding fakes / scams) to this makes me less likely to use the service after I've exhausted my current tokens.

 

[momin.ator]

I'm interested to see what people say.

 

[hdtv267]

My joining the process was to due to knowing if a pin is real or not. If there's a minor flaw, there's going to be - this is something that is mass produced and "things happen in. production" I think in the inspection process some of the wording needs be changed as one of the pins I traded last go round had a production flaw. I purchases said pin at a Disney Store, so it was legitimate yet it was marked UNCERTAIN.
I thought I had read something that the process was going to be alot more streamlined with turn around and verification - but the "blemish police" have been holding up the works.
Im still baffled about the entire process. All of the pins that I have submitted have been either confirmed or denied, but im still waiting for 10 of the trading partners pins to be verfiied.
Shouldn't it be if alll the pins are in, one gets confirmed, then the matching gets confirmed instead of waiting 6 weeks?

 

[hopemax]

Shouldn't it be if alll the pins are in, one gets confirmed, then the matching gets confirmed instead of waiting 6 weeks?

I would not expect this with 400 packages. It feels like an inefficient way to work through 400 packages and 10K pins.

I expect they do something like:

Person 1 - Easily verifiable, no photos
Person 2 - Easily verifiable
...
Person 400 - Easily verifiable

Then go through again

Person 1 - Harder to verify, need photos
Person 2 - Harder to verify
...
Person 400 Harder to verify

Then a final time for the really difficult pins.

What you are asking doesn't account for the varying difficulty in verification, and that it takes actual time to retrieve a pin. In the last TA, I traded with 25 different people. So they would have to dig into 26 different pins (including mine) to process all of mine in one go. Just getting around, physically, and pulling them out... how much time do you think that adds vs working one box at a time? So if you're Person 1, yes, you'll likely get your pins faster. But if you're Person 350, it's probably longer. It also introduces a lot of opportunity for pins to get misplaced. I also suspect if more than one copy of a pin, or same series / blind box has been traded in a TA, they review them all at the same time, because it would be easier to compare them and spot differences.

I get everyone wants their pins faster, but they've had years to refine their system and are likely more familiar with the drawbacks than those of us that haven't tried to manage 400 boxes and 10K pins at once.

 

[Ach West]

I don't use Pin & Pop (because I think both trading through a third party & paying to trade takes a lot away from the concept of trading in general) . . . & the poll didn't include my opinion of 'whether I would accept depends heavily on the flaw & where it is', so I didn't vote; but I still have a few general thoughts I'd like to bring up.
1. 'Pins are cheap trinkets' - they're not that cheap, & obviously people collect them because they value them.

2. I 100% have got brand-new, just out of box pins that were heavily flawed (a character's printed face missing pieces) that I would never expect people to be willing to trade for . . . nor would I offer them, except as freebies with another trade. 'Brand new' doesn't guarantee something is particularly nice.

3. On trading in person . . . about a year ago, I got my first chance to trade in person. I'd pulled a chaser from a Hidden Mickey pack that had a slight flaw (a single, hard to spot drop of enamel that was out of place - something that didn't bother me, even though I am extremely picky about my pins). I didn't collect the character, so I decided to trade for a different pin from the same set - making sure to disclose the flaw. The person I was trading with was extremely hesitant to trade, even though I was asking for a common pin for a chaser.

 

[TheMickeyMouseRules]

I don't use Pin & Pop (because I think both trading through a third party & paying to trade takes a lot away from the concept of trading in general) . . . & the poll didn't include my opinion of 'whether I would accept depends heavily on the flaw & where it is', so I didn't vote; but I still have a few general thoughts I'd like to bring up.
1. 'Pins are cheap trinkets' - they're not that cheap, & obviously people collect them because they value them.

2. I 100% have got brand-new, just out of box pins that were heavily flawed (a character's printed face missing pieces) that I would never expect people to be willing to trade for . . . nor would I offer them, except as freebies with another trade. 'Brand new' doesn't guarantee something is particularly nice.

3. On trading in person . . . about a year ago, I got my first chance to trade in person. I'd pulled a chaser from a Hidden Mickey pack that had a slight flaw (a single, hard to spot drop of enamel that was out of place - something that didn't bother me, even though I am extremely picky about my pins). I didn't collect the character, so I decided to trade for a different pin from the same set - making sure to disclose the flaw. The person I was trading with was extremely hesitant to trade, even though I was asking for a common pin for a chaser.

Sounds you are local to opportunities to trade in person? The cost of pinandpop is pretty reasonable for mail trading. The ability to ship a large number of pins in one go is actually cheaper than the multi-pin trades I make on Pinpics.

Thinking your vote could fit into this pot?

If I can see a factory flaw when I look at a pin and it is a bad flaw, I will decline the trade.​

Someone who does not like the location of the flaw would fit into the "bad flaw" category.

It is perhaps not the price but the quality when using the word cheap. The quality is cheap and mass produced. It is not a process that produces amazing one off a kind art. And even art can have flaws. Very little is perfect. Those that want the better quality pins should accept the route to gaining them will take more effort and perhaps multiple trades. All traders should not be dragged along for the ride because they trade on pinandpop.

 

[Story]

I'm interested to see what people say.

Same here- I’ll be lurking this thread with a lot of interest. A huge reason I’ve been shying away from the idea of doing PinandPop is because of the number of posts about people declining pins due to factory flaws.

I don’t live near the park so I have a huge understanding of how expensive this hobby can be. But when I am at the park and I pull pins straight from bags (some mystery bags even had the pins in individual infamous red lined plastic bags straight from out of the 5 packer!) , I have to accept I can’t always get the pin exactly how I would have loved to get it because of Disney’s quality control going down.

I never want to knowingly sell or trade fakes, so I respect the idea of a third party service checking on things like that as I’ve even been fooled by what’s a fake and what’s not. Blemishes is where it starts to get fuzzy. Whose to say what a perfect pin should look like these days?

Anyway, I’m definitely interested in trying out PinandPop one day and there is A LOT I still feel shy about knowing beyond the inspection process. But I’m eager to hear and learn from discussions like these from experienced traders 🥰

 

[Ach West]

Sounds you are local to opportunities to trade in person? The cost of pinandpop is pretty reasonable for mail trading. The ability to ship a large number of pins in one go is actually cheaper than the multi-pin trades I make on Pinpics.

Thinking your vote could fit into this pot?

If I can see a factory flaw when I look at a pin and it is a bad flaw, I will decline the trade.​

Someone who does not like the location of the flaw would fit into the "bad flaw" category.

It is perhaps not the price but the quality when using the word cheap. The quality is cheap and mass produced. It is not a process that produces amazing one off a kind art. And even art can have flaws. Very little is perfect. Those that want the better quality pins should accept the route to gaining them will take more effort and perhaps multiple trades. All traders should not be dragged along for the ride because they trade on pinandpop.

Not even slightly local, it was an opportunity during my vacation.

'Bad flaw' is so incredibly subjective - & I think that's the biggest problem here. I don't think most collectors are insisting on their mass-produced pins being perfect, but what is a completely reasonable - or even unnoticeable! - flaw to one person might be the one & only thing that's unacceptable to someone else.