PIN PICS (Wants / Trades Accuracy) Case Study
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PIN PICS (Wants / Trades Accuracy) Case Study
- Thread starter iamdisneydan
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reading what you have said Dan I would like to point to point out to look at my trades list and you would find that I dont have that many desirable pins so the point your trying to make that people who have crap traders will never get the pins they REALLY want..well I can prove that its completley wrong, as take a look at what I have in my collection and you will find I have EVERY UP pin + other hard to get pins...and how did I get them...I bought them.
So to assume that people with crap traders cant afford the pins they REALLY want is completley false as having poor traders doesnt automatically mean that trader cant afford pins they want, as I will use me as an example...why do I have poor traders/not alot...as some people have 1000's is down to me buying all the pins I want as why buy pins for trading when its cheaper to get the pins you want..
small-ish rant over. but I hate people who assume things and to say traders with not great trades and HIGH wants will never get the pins they want is just wrong. Im the perfect example of that.
So to assume that people with crap traders cant afford the pins they REALLY want is completley false as having poor traders doesnt automatically mean that trader cant afford pins they want, as I will use me as an example...why do I have poor traders/not alot...as some people have 1000's is down to me buying all the pins I want as why buy pins for trading when its cheaper to get the pins you want..
small-ish rant over. but I hate people who assume things and to say traders with not great trades and HIGH wants will never get the pins they want is just wrong. Im the perfect example of that.
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Mmmmm....someeople may go just on trades and wants, but I find more that people go by whatever is more beneficial tom them in any given trade. If they have a pin that sells for $30 but has the same trades/wants as a pin that goes for $50, guess what, they may want to push the trades wants numbers. On the other hand, if they have the $50 pin they are going to say to ignore the trades and wants and just look at market value.
In you trade example, I have to say that I probably wouldn't want to take that trade either. Higher end pins are easier to sell off. If I have a higher value pin, I want something I really want out of it rather than trading for multiples I only kind of want and will be difficult to sell if I decide I don't want them anymore. Look at the sale boards and eBay....low to mid level value pins jusT don't move unless they are priced really cheap. But high end pins, if they are reasonably priced, they move. So, if I have a $125 pin, you could offer me 75 hidden mickeys and I still probably wouldn't want them. 🙁
This is probably the most factual comment in the thread. The only thing I would add is that there are many who will not only value their pin in a way that is advantageous to them, but in the same trade they value your pin in a way that is a disadvantage to you. DUHDUH!!.......duhduhduhduhduhduhduhduhDUUUUH!!!! Sorry I couldn't get past the theme from JAWS!
As for us, we try to look at as many factors as possible when considering a trade. Trading/wanting, edition size, type of pin (jumbo vs. regular), ebay value (when possible), and our cost are all important. In the end we want both sides to feel that they got what they wanted out of the trade...no trader's remorse! If it does not appear as though that will happen and we want the pin badly enough we will just buy it.
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Ok, I was going to stay out of this but.... One thing that one also has to consider is that when you get an offer for one of your high to mid level pins from someone offering only a Hidden Mickey, That person could be completely new to the game and does not yet understand the "value" of your said pin. PinPics is the place where a new trader to the hobby can organize their pins and also see what pins came out from the past as well. When pinpics posts a price to that pin, it's not the current "market value" but what that pin originally sold for. While I do agree that it can be a tad bit frustrating that I get offers that (I feel) are way too lopsided, I always keep in mind that that person offering might have just gotten into the hobby a few days ago and is trying their luck at pin trading. We all love this or we wouldn't do it and I certainly do not want to discourage anyone from trying to get the pins they want. I will simply respond with my reason as to why that trade is "lopsided". When I was new to this earlier this year, I was seriously offended by someone at the barrels (they will go nameless) when I was trying to learn about this hobby and I won't do that to anyone when a simple explanation and shared knowledge will help them along.
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There are other reasons too. Sometimes that is just the way Pinpics works. People use the TA system differently. The person sending the request might have nice stuff but you might not have it on your wants list. So, they may have offered a lot when they set up the request but if they don't edit them, boom, you get a hidden Mickey offer. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are new or a shark. Just that they want that pin and the hidden Mickey was the only one that matched your wants.
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- Redondo Beach, CA
I thought I mentioned it before but now that I have heard so many responses I have a change of heart. Yes there are many factors when trading.
Yes I should not assume that just because you dont have good traders does not mean you won't buy a pin. To be candid with you, I completly overlooked the fact that some of the people do buy pins.
This all started with my helping a friend get a pin that the person phisically said that there were 4 people trading and 200+ wanting and wanted $125.00 for the pin in trade based on this and it was going for $50.00 buy it now on ebay.
I did make a lot of assumprions and in hindsight they were not well thought through. It is however a good discussion and as mentioned, I have gained a lot of insight. And I do think you all know my heart is in the right place, I was just off on this topic.
You mention people at the Barrels I assume at Westward Ho and I take great pride in trying to help and educate people and will spend as much time as they need if I am able to give them valuable information. I dont like to see anyone and especially new traders taken advantage of.
Yes, iamdisneydan has learned a lot from this discussion but I also feel there are truths to both sides. I really thought I did some good research but did not think of all of the variables when doing so. If nothing else, as long as people have gotten something from this, I have accomplished my basic goal of helping people even if I had to make the wrong example so people can make the right ones.
I will certainly think through my next project and not make any assumptions.
Maybe I should just stick to explaining factual information rather than opinionated information...lol
Yes I should not assume that just because you dont have good traders does not mean you won't buy a pin. To be candid with you, I completly overlooked the fact that some of the people do buy pins.
This all started with my helping a friend get a pin that the person phisically said that there were 4 people trading and 200+ wanting and wanted $125.00 for the pin in trade based on this and it was going for $50.00 buy it now on ebay.
I did make a lot of assumprions and in hindsight they were not well thought through. It is however a good discussion and as mentioned, I have gained a lot of insight. And I do think you all know my heart is in the right place, I was just off on this topic.
You mention people at the Barrels I assume at Westward Ho and I take great pride in trying to help and educate people and will spend as much time as they need if I am able to give them valuable information. I dont like to see anyone and especially new traders taken advantage of.
Yes, iamdisneydan has learned a lot from this discussion but I also feel there are truths to both sides. I really thought I did some good research but did not think of all of the variables when doing so. If nothing else, as long as people have gotten something from this, I have accomplished my basic goal of helping people even if I had to make the wrong example so people can make the right ones.
I will certainly think through my next project and not make any assumptions.
Maybe I should just stick to explaining factual information rather than opinionated information...lol
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This has got to be the most entertaining thread on the DPF - I'm loving reading all the posts & they have my full attention!
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I've enjoyed reading everyone's points in this thread. I'm glad that Dan started the discussion. Thanks, Dan, and thanks to all the rest of you for weighing in. Definitely thought provoking.
Here here.
This is all in good fun and is serving its purpose - to stimulate conversation. We all have our opinions and are entitled to them. But to pick apart and blatently criticize someone's opinion (even the spelling) is deplorable and does not belong on this forum.
As thumper said - if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all. (Notice I didn't put it into quotes as I'm note sure of the actual quotation - just trying to save me from getting bashed like others who have commented on this thread.)
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hahaha
I agree with you Bruce. Tough crowd.
Anyways, I get what Dan was trying to say, that just because alot of people want the pin, doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be able to get it anytime soon because of their traders (unless they buy it). But that doesn't mean they shouldn't put it on their wants list.
And as for value, I don't see how you couldn't use eBay or the boards to compare what people are paying for a pin. Just because I think a pin is worth a certain amount doesn't mean other pin traders will. So why would my own personal worth of a pin be a better indicator than what other people actually pay? But that's just my own opinion, I'm not saying its the correct one.
It is a great discussion! I think the only thing you may have overlooked Dan, is that Disney is all about dreams. When a person places a pin on his/her wants list that may be difficult or even impossible for them to acquire, in a way they are expressing their dreams. Those dreams are what keeps many of us excited about trading or buying pins.
As for me, I am currently wishing on a star for all my HGs, because I have been assured that my dreams will come true! :x:
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As mentioned, I have seen new light. I can honestly say that I am happy I started this thread because all of these opinions have enlightened me.
I am a true beliver in Disney Magic and that if you dont have dreams.....well.
Yes, you should list your favorite pins because you truely hope you will get them one day. I see that it is no different than my dream home.
I just wish some people could be a little more gentle with their comments. I have changed my opinions many times because of good discussions.
I also dont use spell check and type faster than I can think.
Just remember I am all about pin trading, making people happy and keeping the dream alive. I said my heart was in the right place, I had just made some assumptions that should have been better thought through but that is why I have all of you. We are family. We work together and like most families, we wont always agree on things but we can still express our feelings.
Many of you understand the point I was trying to make. I think the point is correct but many of the assumptions I used are not. I may go about it incorrectly when adding 2 + 2 but I ended up with 4. Thats what I was trying to convey here. The assumptions were out of line but the end result is the numbers are not very accurate for whatever purpose you use them for.
I am a true beliver in Disney Magic and that if you dont have dreams.....well.
Yes, you should list your favorite pins because you truely hope you will get them one day. I see that it is no different than my dream home.
I just wish some people could be a little more gentle with their comments. I have changed my opinions many times because of good discussions.
I also dont use spell check and type faster than I can think.
Just remember I am all about pin trading, making people happy and keeping the dream alive. I said my heart was in the right place, I had just made some assumptions that should have been better thought through but that is why I have all of you. We are family. We work together and like most families, we wont always agree on things but we can still express our feelings.
Many of you understand the point I was trying to make. I think the point is correct but many of the assumptions I used are not. I may go about it incorrectly when adding 2 + 2 but I ended up with 4. Thats what I was trying to convey here. The assumptions were out of line but the end result is the numbers are not very accurate for whatever purpose you use them for.
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BYW, Greg & Debby did make a dream come true for me to make someone elses dream come true. There are great people out there who only look at helping and making people happy. Money is not the object. Bringing happiness to others is. Right Tabbi? lol (Thank you too.)
Dreams do come true!
Dreams do come true!
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Word.
It is my inventory system, my card catalog, my information bank, and occasionally, when people are up for trading, my trading network. I use it to discover pins I might not have known existed, to keep the record of what I own and what I would like to have, and to look up specific info.
I've never had anybody try to determine a monetary value via Pinpics with me...only a trade value. And since I usually have a good idea what the secondary value is, *I* usually determine what the "trade" value is (for me, personally). I can accept or walk away very easily- sometimes I choose to cave a little, sometimes I'm a hard*ss. Regardless, what they say about the Trades/Wants ratios usually have very little to do with my decisions.
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Well, to be fair, it's also frustrating when someone comes on, drops an info bomb, then plants their feet and states that it's all FACT, when really, it's not. A scientist's head would have exploded reading that post. Dan also backpedaled a lot later, then finally said:
"PS where did I say I was the Know All be all of pin trading. I am only giving my opinions"
When he firmly stated he was presenting FACT in the original post.
I have no issues with the content being presented, and agree with a couple of the points he made, but posting observations as fact in a poorly worded manner is just asking to be argued with (and not in a healthy debate sort of way). As the internet says, "Don't throw a grenade and act surprised when it goes off"
Perhaps making the post more conversational and less confrontational would garner more intelligent point/counterpoint than defensiveness and backtracking. More flies with honey than vinegar and all that jazz...
I confess to being a little shocked at the original post myself, but I resisted in replying, as past internet endeavors have trained in me. 🙂
::shrug::
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I never said I was the Know all of pins and i did say what I presented I believe was Factual information based on the information I had studied. I did not backpeddle, I learned and have different feelings.
My infornation to me was factual as I did what I felt was necessary for what I called a case stude. Not all cases, a case which is a sampling of the subject matter. I still feel very stronlgly about much of the information I presented, however, based on other peoples input, I see flaws in my reasoning.
I never did say I was the KNOW ALL OF PINS. I did say I was presenting facts, not opinions. Thats true as I did not just state my opinion, I did actually do research which led me to believe I was giving factual information.
Now you have something new to pick apart. It is amazing how people can twist what I have said and call it backpeddling.
So if I say it was 80 degrees outside and someone corrects me and says it was 60 and I realize I made a mistake, am I backpeddling. I admitted I made some incorrect assumptions. If I lied and said I was correct and tried to change the information, that would be different.
Here you go.
I made a mistake with my information. When would you like to hang me?
And as many have said. This post has been very informative and entertaining as long as it does not become a bashing which seems like many of you want to do to me.
Am I sorry? NO! Am I seeing a different perspective? YES. Did I do this with good intentions? YES. Was I trying to help people? Yes.
The rope please........................
My infornation to me was factual as I did what I felt was necessary for what I called a case stude. Not all cases, a case which is a sampling of the subject matter. I still feel very stronlgly about much of the information I presented, however, based on other peoples input, I see flaws in my reasoning.
I never did say I was the KNOW ALL OF PINS. I did say I was presenting facts, not opinions. Thats true as I did not just state my opinion, I did actually do research which led me to believe I was giving factual information.
Now you have something new to pick apart. It is amazing how people can twist what I have said and call it backpeddling.
So if I say it was 80 degrees outside and someone corrects me and says it was 60 and I realize I made a mistake, am I backpeddling. I admitted I made some incorrect assumptions. If I lied and said I was correct and tried to change the information, that would be different.
Here you go.
I made a mistake with my information. When would you like to hang me?
And as many have said. This post has been very informative and entertaining as long as it does not become a bashing which seems like many of you want to do to me.
Am I sorry? NO! Am I seeing a different perspective? YES. Did I do this with good intentions? YES. Was I trying to help people? Yes.
The rope please........................
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Well, as someone with a B.S., M.S., and Ph.D. in a field of science, I read through the original post and I'm happy to say my head is still intact...
THANK YOU! It's one thing to present a post as a topic starter, but the amount of threads being started of this "Factual Information" is getting a little out of hand. Sometimes I feel like I am taking an online course at college for pin trading. I don't mind people starting threads stating an opinion, and then leaving it open for others to discuss, or even a thread about REAL facts or important knowledge. But the threads being started to give pointless information stated as facts, when really it's a poorly put together opinion, is old.
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I found this interesting reading. Of course there are things that Dan and I disagree with or did as I am unsure what opinions are changed and what are in tact. This is my perspective on PinPics and what I know about it. I KNOW I would not do half as much trading since I am not near a park if it were not for them. I do CONSIDER the wants to trades ratio when trading but mostly it is how much I want what is offered or what I am asking for in a trade. The person that commented on the trader who stated that they only traded when they initiated the trade may have meant that they were looking for a certain pin(s) for their pin. What we all must remember is Pins have a different value to different people. Much as Dan stated that someone wanted $125 for a pin that was buy it now for $50 on Ebay I would have showed the auction to the person and then got the pin of Ebay if I felt that was what I wanted to do.
For me, being out of work for so long, I will trade more than I will spend on a pin because where Pins use to be my "focus" I will say that now keeping a cash flow is. I totally disagree with someone putting a persons financial situation in line according to their trades or collection listing. It is more likely to indicate the type of trader they are than their financial status. I have very little expendable cash but I have an OK trades list and an equal collection listed. I must also say that I probably only have half my collection listed and some of them I do have listed I probably do not have anymore. I am sure there are many others in this category. I know many that do not keep up there collection listings at all. Most of the people I know do not have their PinPics listing up to date. Not to mention the buyers vs traders that still use PinPics as a means to see what they are looking for. How often does someone come to the park with a list of pictures of pins. They used PinPics to remind them what they are looking for. PinPics is simply a tool and people use it differently. Some want an accurate listing for the purpose of keeping records and some do not want to keep such a public record. What if some of those collections you saw were just the persons way of making that list to take to the park to help them remember what hidden mickeys they needed to look for.
Truly, as I have stated before, I feel the value of any pin lies with the person that owns that pin. In the case of the $125 pin, the only way Dan was going to own that particular pin from that particular owner was to come up with $125. Maybe a friend gave it to them or it cost that much for them to get and they just want to get what they spent out of it. You can not fault the person that put the value on their pin, it is their pin to put a value on. As Dan put it in one of his many topics... be patient. The next person may not value that pin as much.
The only other "point of interest" I wish to address is EBay. EBay is not an end all for the value either. Just because a pin sold for $50 today does not mean it will sell for that tomorrow. Values go up and down daily... hourly in fact. Look at any pin on EBay in completed auctions and you will see fluctuation. Values are not written in stone and vary due to the economy, time of year, and simply who happened to look at that particular auction. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. Sometimes pins sell low and sometimes two people get in a bidding war and bid the pin up to a really high figure. Neither of these examples indicate the pins true worth overall. They only indicate what that seller sold that pin for at that time on that day. As always JMHO
For me, being out of work for so long, I will trade more than I will spend on a pin because where Pins use to be my "focus" I will say that now keeping a cash flow is. I totally disagree with someone putting a persons financial situation in line according to their trades or collection listing. It is more likely to indicate the type of trader they are than their financial status. I have very little expendable cash but I have an OK trades list and an equal collection listed. I must also say that I probably only have half my collection listed and some of them I do have listed I probably do not have anymore. I am sure there are many others in this category. I know many that do not keep up there collection listings at all. Most of the people I know do not have their PinPics listing up to date. Not to mention the buyers vs traders that still use PinPics as a means to see what they are looking for. How often does someone come to the park with a list of pictures of pins. They used PinPics to remind them what they are looking for. PinPics is simply a tool and people use it differently. Some want an accurate listing for the purpose of keeping records and some do not want to keep such a public record. What if some of those collections you saw were just the persons way of making that list to take to the park to help them remember what hidden mickeys they needed to look for.
Truly, as I have stated before, I feel the value of any pin lies with the person that owns that pin. In the case of the $125 pin, the only way Dan was going to own that particular pin from that particular owner was to come up with $125. Maybe a friend gave it to them or it cost that much for them to get and they just want to get what they spent out of it. You can not fault the person that put the value on their pin, it is their pin to put a value on. As Dan put it in one of his many topics... be patient. The next person may not value that pin as much.
The only other "point of interest" I wish to address is EBay. EBay is not an end all for the value either. Just because a pin sold for $50 today does not mean it will sell for that tomorrow. Values go up and down daily... hourly in fact. Look at any pin on EBay in completed auctions and you will see fluctuation. Values are not written in stone and vary due to the economy, time of year, and simply who happened to look at that particular auction. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. Sometimes pins sell low and sometimes two people get in a bidding war and bid the pin up to a really high figure. Neither of these examples indicate the pins true worth overall. They only indicate what that seller sold that pin for at that time on that day. As always JMHO
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