The scrapper : Disney pin trading's black sheep
-
Guest, Help The DPF Community Thrive - Join Our Donation Drive Today!
We're launching a special DPF Donation Drive to ensure our beloved forum continues to flourish. Your support is vital in helping us cover essential server costs and keep our community running smoothly — This is more than just a donation; it's an investment in the future of our community.
Join us in this crucial drive and let's ensure our forum remains a vibrant and dynamic place for everyone.
Please visit the DPF Donation Drive Thread for details and instructions on how you can make your donation today!
The scrapper : Disney pin trading's black sheep
- Thread starter the1andonlytikicarol
- Start date
- Status
Sometimes we just need to take a breath and give thanks that we have freedom of speech.
Secondly, counterfeit is legally defined as "not in the ordinary, or authorized stream of commerce". So, Disney can say that the same pin they sell in the park and one that is sold through the factory back door, is in fact -a counterfeit.
However, Disney has their own responsibility to take here. It is considered a cost of doing business in places like China and Hong Kong, when there is a back-door market for goods made there. Disney knows that a certain number of goods are over-runs, scrappers, etc. and sold for cheap on the side of the factories. Corporations do not have much political influence in communist countries. However because the labor is so cheap, they choose to do business there.
That being said, Disney COULD stop this process by going to more controlled, reputable source(s) for the manufacturing of pins. However, that would cut into the profit margin on the product. And, this was already a failed experiment with WDI using PinsUSA for their product.
Disney has already obtained the height of how much people will pay for a pin -so more increases are not practical for Disney's bottom line. So, Disney is not/and will not be interested in shutting down the scrapper market. Those individuals that were recently charged (not convicted) are being pursued by Customs officials for copyright violations. Disney refused to further investigate anything or anyone else. Hence why the scrapper dealers have returned.
When I see a family of 5 try to start pin trading at $6.95 per pin, I cannot fault their trying to find a way to make the experience more affordable. That does not justify all scenarios and situations....but in looking at the prices lately..I cannot blame people trying to find a way to participate.
Diana is off her soapbox now....
Secondly, counterfeit is legally defined as "not in the ordinary, or authorized stream of commerce". So, Disney can say that the same pin they sell in the park and one that is sold through the factory back door, is in fact -a counterfeit.
However, Disney has their own responsibility to take here. It is considered a cost of doing business in places like China and Hong Kong, when there is a back-door market for goods made there. Disney knows that a certain number of goods are over-runs, scrappers, etc. and sold for cheap on the side of the factories. Corporations do not have much political influence in communist countries. However because the labor is so cheap, they choose to do business there.
That being said, Disney COULD stop this process by going to more controlled, reputable source(s) for the manufacturing of pins. However, that would cut into the profit margin on the product. And, this was already a failed experiment with WDI using PinsUSA for their product.
Disney has already obtained the height of how much people will pay for a pin -so more increases are not practical for Disney's bottom line. So, Disney is not/and will not be interested in shutting down the scrapper market. Those individuals that were recently charged (not convicted) are being pursued by Customs officials for copyright violations. Disney refused to further investigate anything or anyone else. Hence why the scrapper dealers have returned.
When I see a family of 5 try to start pin trading at $6.95 per pin, I cannot fault their trying to find a way to make the experience more affordable. That does not justify all scenarios and situations....but in looking at the prices lately..I cannot blame people trying to find a way to participate.
Diana is off her soapbox now....
I will step up on that box than..... If u need cheap pins... buy from a member here or other pin collector like My d pins. They sell pins for 2-3 bucks and they are real... at no point will any one post sumthing or tell me sumthing that will make it ok to sell or buy or trade fakes or scrappers or what ever you want to call them.
for the ppl that still cant get it... please see post about ppl in jail... mayb u can go visit and learn from them if its cool or not..
for the ppl that still cant get it... please see post about ppl in jail... mayb u can go visit and learn from them if its cool or not..
Diana i soooo get that aspect of big family's trying to let their kids pin trade, which is soooo fun and with the cost of hotel and food and trinkets i dont know how big familys do it....thats why i bring my traders book with all my duplicates (yeh i have a problem) and i also will bid on extra fun pins from sellers i trust who have good shipping and hand them out to kids in the parks----it makes my day to find a family with a brood and let them look through my book and choose pins, especially if they have a lanyard! I will exercise this joy this time NEXT WEEK yippie!
I've been thinking about why Disney doesn't go after the counterfeit sellers more. Even the guys who are in jail seem to be there more because of the FBI than because of Disney. I suspect that, in the long run, they end up benefiting from having the counterfeits out there. Maybe people who buy the fakes are still buying enough of the real ones (because they get interested enough to do so) so that Disney is still making more than they would otherwise. The fakes get them into the stores repeatedly and that's always good for business.
You have to be a relatively serious collector to care either way and the fact that there are fakes out there is probably making the more serious types spend less in the secondary market and more at official Disney outlets.
Disney may claim that they don't refuse trades because they don't want to ruin the fun for the children (and others). But, if it were really eating into their profits, I'm sure they'd find a way to clamp down more than they do. Realistically, they could hire someone part time to work with ebay and amazon to identify the people who are selling fakes and it wouldn't cost much to put a dent into the problem.
The thing is that, as collectors, I'm not sure what we can do about it other than complain loudly whenever we get a fake off of a cast lanyard and/or refuse to buy pins that have known scrappers since they are unlikely to hold any value for trade or sale later.
You have to be a relatively serious collector to care either way and the fact that there are fakes out there is probably making the more serious types spend less in the secondary market and more at official Disney outlets.
Disney may claim that they don't refuse trades because they don't want to ruin the fun for the children (and others). But, if it were really eating into their profits, I'm sure they'd find a way to clamp down more than they do. Realistically, they could hire someone part time to work with ebay and amazon to identify the people who are selling fakes and it wouldn't cost much to put a dent into the problem.
The thing is that, as collectors, I'm not sure what we can do about it other than complain loudly whenever we get a fake off of a cast lanyard and/or refuse to buy pins that have known scrappers since they are unlikely to hold any value for trade or sale later.
I really detest the use of absolutes.
There is NOT a single pin trader* out there that has not received/purchased or traded for a bad pin unknowingly. Whether that pin was a scrapper, counterfeit, bootleg or unauthorized source. And even Disney has gone back and claimed previous counterfeit pins as their own -even tough they were counterfeit to begin with.
To reiterate..I never sanctioned nor ordained the scrapper market. I merely explained why it is there.
Further, a new group of people in trading do not know about Disney boards or forums to find pins. All they know is Disney and then the next step is Ebay or Craig's List. They do not learn of the differences and the problem-children out there until they are more invested into the collectible.
I do know that too many times, more veteran pin traders have scared the crap out of some of these new traders with all this talk of 'fakes' 'scrappers'...etc. We have to be gentle in our critiques or they will just jump out from participating.
Diana
(*If you claim that you only buy from Disney and nothing else -then you are a Pin Buyer, not a Trader)
There is NOT a single pin trader* out there that has not received/purchased or traded for a bad pin unknowingly. Whether that pin was a scrapper, counterfeit, bootleg or unauthorized source. And even Disney has gone back and claimed previous counterfeit pins as their own -even tough they were counterfeit to begin with.
To reiterate..I never sanctioned nor ordained the scrapper market. I merely explained why it is there.
Further, a new group of people in trading do not know about Disney boards or forums to find pins. All they know is Disney and then the next step is Ebay or Craig's List. They do not learn of the differences and the problem-children out there until they are more invested into the collectible.
I do know that too many times, more veteran pin traders have scared the crap out of some of these new traders with all this talk of 'fakes' 'scrappers'...etc. We have to be gentle in our critiques or they will just jump out from participating.
Diana
(*If you claim that you only buy from Disney and nothing else -then you are a Pin Buyer, not a Trader)
- Messages
- 3,208
- Location
- Cork, Ireland
[/QUOTE](*If you claim that you only buy from Disney and nothing else -then you are a Pin Buyer, not a Trader)[/QUOTE]
I have to disagree with you on that even though Im not in that catagory as there are those that buy multiple pins from Disneystore.com/Parks to trade so how they are solely a pin buyer I do not know as for those people that might be there best option to get park/DS.com pins to trade away and hence why they buy multiples of a pin so they have one themselves and a trader.
I have to disagree with you on that even though Im not in that catagory as there are those that buy multiple pins from Disneystore.com/Parks to trade so how they are solely a pin buyer I do not know as for those people that might be there best option to get park/DS.com pins to trade away and hence why they buy multiples of a pin so they have one themselves and a trader.
(*If you claim that you only buy from Disney and nothing else -then you are a Pin Buyer, not a Trader)[/QUOTE]
I have to disagree with you on that even though Im not in that catagory as there are those that buy multiple pins from Disneystore.com/Parks to trade so how they are solely a pin buyer I do not know as for those people that might be there best option to get park/DS.com pins to trade away and hence why they buy multiples of a pin so they have one themselves and a trader.[/QUOTE]
She said that if you buy from Disney only and nothing else you are not a pin trader. The person you mentioned goes beyond that and traders, therefore, they are a pin trader.
I have to disagree with you on that even though Im not in that catagory as there are those that buy multiple pins from Disneystore.com/Parks to trade so how they are solely a pin buyer I do not know as for those people that might be there best option to get park/DS.com pins to trade away and hence why they buy multiples of a pin so they have one themselves and a trader.[/QUOTE]
She said that if you buy from Disney only and nothing else you are not a pin trader. The person you mentioned goes beyond that and traders, therefore, they are a pin trader.
- Messages
- 4,849
- Location
- Newark, Ca.
Mods, can we have this thread closed? There's really no need for it.
- Messages
- 3,208
- Location
- Cork, Ireland
id also ask for the member to be removed and the IP address blocked so they cant access the forum but could that be too harsh? imo no
I like this way of thinking! I think I will try this next time we are at Disney also. It is like the people who give out their fastpasses as they leave the park. It makes it more magical. A zap in your own way.
You are a very nice person and I love your sig! Maid Marian is my fav. non-princess leading lady!
sum of us wanted to help these ppl..but yes in the end..im sure they will just be kicked out of here and we will go back to out of sight out of mind. silly little ppl can stay in the blind world of fakes... at least we know not to trade with them...
Hey..mayb sumone can send scoop after the vidkid. he says he loves pins so much and disney... would he realy tell the pin master about how scrappers and fakes are ok... i think NOT....
Hey..mayb sumone can send scoop after the vidkid. he says he loves pins so much and disney... would he realy tell the pin master about how scrappers and fakes are ok... i think NOT....
ppl here know him... but its a wast of his time to tell you what we have already tried to help u understand. It would b cool to think that mayb u would listen to him..but u seem way to hard headed to even listen to the master oin trader.
- Messages
- 679
- Location
- So Cal
Has anyone reported the1andonlytikicarol to the mods? I will if no one has. They have joined the former under a few names now and are just blowing up the forum with useless info. They obviously have no life and nothing else to do. Many have tried to help and sent them here to help them. Obviously it didn't work and they don't get it. Let's start the New Year with the true collectors that do care about the hobby and have them blocked. Reminds me of two others members not so long ago that have been banned, I won't mention any names but many of you know who they are. There is no need for people like this on the forum.
- Status