Help Change DSF
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Help Change DSF
- Thread starter Ozzie1988
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The deal is, as long as they have people waiting in line for 2 days ahead of time and pins are selling out in a couple hours max, then why would they feel the need to recognize any problem? Adding more quality control costs money. As long as the product is selling out, then they have no need to cut into their profits by adding more man hours. We have seen plenty of pins have a defect, then get taken off the racks never to return. Disney has no problem destroying a whole batch of product due to missed quality control rather than adding more steps to the final check. The only way to make the voice heard is to stop buying. The problem is that it won't stop the resellers from just snatching up all the stock because they know someone will buy them on the secondary market. Unfortunately I doubt anything can be done with this. As far as the BBB, that does nothing. How many times have you looked up the BBB rating of a company before using it? As long as the company has Disney in the name, the product will sell regardless of any rating.
markheardjr
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+1, heard this pretty much from Ed. He said, "Why would any retailer purposefully withhold merchandise?" The problem was DSF previewed PTD's and included Kevin in the preview last September. They were trying to be nice and show us what was coming. But greedy customers forced the issue and kept buying them out to try to get to Kevin. It was to the point here was 50+ people arriving when rumor was PTD's were low and a new one was coming.
PTD's are a GREAT product for DSF. They guarantee every customer that comes there will be a low LE for them to purchase. Often tourists can't make the release, so they can at least get a PTD. But now that the locals and release goers are starting to collect PTD's more and more they have become popular. DSF was on the right track and did LE500's. They just pick one of their worst ever designs/characters to do it with and everyone complained. Ray from PatF was not a good looking pin, and to the be the first LE500, yikes. But they should have known and they should have made Rapunzel, Pascal, Kevin LE500's. If they ever do Wall-E, Ariel, Wreck-it Ralph characters they better do LE500's. They will sell more ice creams so why wouldn't they want to?
As a more-long term PTD collector, I really hope they keep making more. And I could care less if they are LE500 or even LE1000. I like their ice cream a lot and their pins a lot so I'll keep coming back and I love to visit on non-release days to avoid all the waiting and just get my ice cream and pin and chat with the CM's. Just keep them coming!
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+1. And a lot of people wouldn't want the ice cream at all so they make more money on that! (Me, give me ice cream!)
Connies_Hobby
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I agree with you Psycho Pixie, here.
iheartpins
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how many threads have we had on here about ideas of change. Obviously people want it, and DSF is not listening. If people stop going that only means that scalpers will buy them all. I hate to see people who are unhappy just stop going and let them win.
I think Ozzie has some ideas that will make them possibly have to listen. I agree the BBB is no use, they are really a do nothing group.
However, calling and complaining to hire ups, superviors ect.. We would do that if it was bad service, poor product, rude staff ect, at another establisment. So if people really feel that this an issue. I don't see the problem here. I understand that some people feel that the managers are there friends. But again they have been given lots of customer feedback. I am certain the people that complain on here have not just set idly by and done or said nothing. Now some people want to take it a step further. I don't see it as killing pin trading. But this is all JMO.
I think Ozzie gave a suggestion. if you want to do it, do it. If your competely satisified then so be it.
I think Ozzie has some ideas that will make them possibly have to listen. I agree the BBB is no use, they are really a do nothing group.
However, calling and complaining to hire ups, superviors ect.. We would do that if it was bad service, poor product, rude staff ect, at another establisment. So if people really feel that this an issue. I don't see the problem here. I understand that some people feel that the managers are there friends. But again they have been given lots of customer feedback. I am certain the people that complain on here have not just set idly by and done or said nothing. Now some people want to take it a step further. I don't see it as killing pin trading. But this is all JMO.
I think Ozzie gave a suggestion. if you want to do it, do it. If your competely satisified then so be it.
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I disagree that pin sales are what keep them in business. If you look at the surface, the extra money the pin sales bring in makes the store more profitable, but if there were no pins, they would still be there. Its the big picture. Its the movie premiers. Those premiers cover and broadcast the new Disney movie that is being released around the world. The publicity is what truly keeps the businesses open. Any gap from not breaking even I'm sure is covered by whatever marketing budget the newest movie coming out has. Having Pixar / Marvel / Star Wars / & Disney movies requires a location where you can premier your movie with the A listers walking the red carpet for every news outlet to see (and having a sundae next door). So employees saying that pins keep them in business I believe is a half truth.
So why go from one pin release a month to three? There's no need to put themselves through an obvious inconvenience, unless they need the revenue that pin traders bring to the Soda Fountain.
The food isn't bringing in people. Heck. Pin traders hardly eat there and will walk blocks to go somewhere else. Pin traders are keeping that Soda Fountain store afloat. I'm sure the lack of PTDs is putting the squeeze on the bottom line.
The theater is a showcase location and Disney could care less that it doesn't make money. It's their spot in Hollywood for the premiers and it's a historical landmark. To Disney, that theater is a pretty bauble they get to own and showoff.
The food isn't bringing in people. Heck. Pin traders hardly eat there and will walk blocks to go somewhere else. Pin traders are keeping that Soda Fountain store afloat. I'm sure the lack of PTDs is putting the squeeze on the bottom line.
The theater is a showcase location and Disney could care less that it doesn't make money. It's their spot in Hollywood for the premiers and it's a historical landmark. To Disney, that theater is a pretty bauble they get to own and showoff.
This is a vary interesting subject, a premier comes what once twice a quarter? Oz was a major success for El cap and we know iron man too, but how much money dose a primer really bring? You have to first look at the cost staffing and police control with permits for shutting down traffic to a major a main street. Let's not forget the DLR the pirates premier at the park was a huge success. They could go back to doing that at any point.
I thought about the DL premiers, but those seem fitting for movies where the movie has a presence already in the park ala Pirates. I dont think the premier itself brings money... its the marketing / buzz the premier generates. Like Lamorak says... its their pretty little bauble they can show off. Studios spend big money on marketing for these movies, so whats $100000+ for a premier. A premier that is shown on most major markets nightly news shows. So all they have to do is earmark some of the marketing money for the theater / shop to bridge any gap between a profit and loss. I know some companies have businesses that run at a slight loss just to keep their name out there. Disney makes enough in plenty of other areas to carry soda fountain. They need the gift shop at the exit of the attraction. The pins are a just a new revenue stream. The DSF pin surge is fairly recent, so what was keeping them afloat before? The pin sales just make it able to stand on its own without having to take marketing money or profits from elsewhere. So thats while its a half truth. If there were no pins, I dont think Soda Fountain would go anywhere. Just look at the the celeb photos on the walls eating ice cream. Its all marketing.
Which brings up a good point. Why have pins at all?
If I were to theorize, it would have to be that someone discovered that barely keeping afloat or always being in the loss column doesn't get you a performance bonus. Add pins to the mix and it may just bump you into the black and give you a nice performance bonus for getting into the black on the P&L sheet.
Everyone seems to be making money off of the pins, so why is there so much resistance to upping the LE sizes and making more money? You would think that DSF could easily do this. But is there an underlying fear that more pins available will drop the level of demand and then Soda Fountain drops into the red again? Not a big deal for Disney. Maybe a big deal for those who want the performance bonuses? Again, if DSF cares only for the bottom line, why are they not taking advantage of their popularity and bumping the LE sizes to 500, build the customer base, bump to 600, build the customer base, etc...
I think there is a lot of fear mongering going on here by those who profit the most from the pins remaining at LE300. Little gremlins who whisper in the ears of the management at DSF and tell them their bonuses will go away if they start messing with the LE sizes, because everyone will stop buying them. Completely strange...since it's obvious they could easily bump the edition sizes and still make a killing by selling out in a single day. People want the pins and it should be explored how high they could go with the LE sizes until sales level out to where they begin having trouble moving the stock in less than three hours.
If I were to theorize, it would have to be that someone discovered that barely keeping afloat or always being in the loss column doesn't get you a performance bonus. Add pins to the mix and it may just bump you into the black and give you a nice performance bonus for getting into the black on the P&L sheet.
Everyone seems to be making money off of the pins, so why is there so much resistance to upping the LE sizes and making more money? You would think that DSF could easily do this. But is there an underlying fear that more pins available will drop the level of demand and then Soda Fountain drops into the red again? Not a big deal for Disney. Maybe a big deal for those who want the performance bonuses? Again, if DSF cares only for the bottom line, why are they not taking advantage of their popularity and bumping the LE sizes to 500, build the customer base, bump to 600, build the customer base, etc...
I think there is a lot of fear mongering going on here by those who profit the most from the pins remaining at LE300. Little gremlins who whisper in the ears of the management at DSF and tell them their bonuses will go away if they start messing with the LE sizes, because everyone will stop buying them. Completely strange...since it's obvious they could easily bump the edition sizes and still make a killing by selling out in a single day. People want the pins and it should be explored how high they could go with the LE sizes until sales level out to where they begin having trouble moving the stock in less than three hours.
Psycho Pixie
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Why is it, whenever anyone suggests we start contacting Disney about low quality or other issues/concerns... People start wispering and worrying that disney will stop making pins?????
They will NOT get rid of pins.
And here is why::
Us sending polite letters to disney telling then to review quality control is not going to make Disney shut its doors on pin trading.
Its a non-issue. pins will never be "gone."
They will NOT get rid of pins.
And here is why::
- If the pin trade industry/hobby was so troublesome, why did Universal and Knotts start programs like disney.. fairly recently i might add.
- Pins are easy "instant gratification" for tourists. they SELL. They have all the characters available, so EVER guest can be happy with a pin.
- retail; Pins take up very little shelf space, have easy pricing systems for inventory management, AND can be shifted from location to location quickly and easily.
- Money: Low cost to manufacture, high mark up, impulse buyer products.
- Trading: in the parks or at events, the traders buy pins. in many cases a trader buys pins EVERY visit.
- How many pin traders have annual passes specifically for trading and pin purchases?
Us sending polite letters to disney telling then to review quality control is not going to make Disney shut its doors on pin trading.
Its a non-issue. pins will never be "gone."
Because it is another fear tactic to get people to stop complaining about stuff. "Don't make waves or they will just stop making pins; just like DisneyShopping.com", is what they say.
I think the main focus is why can't I exchange a pin, that I feel is flawed, no more than three times at the Soda Fountain? Shouldn't the focus be on making the customer satisfied with their purchase and not making the customer feel like they are inconveniencing staff with returns of flawed pins? Up the quality control and there will be more initial satisfaction and less exchanges. Simple.
I think the main focus is why can't I exchange a pin, that I feel is flawed, no more than three times at the Soda Fountain? Shouldn't the focus be on making the customer satisfied with their purchase and not making the customer feel like they are inconveniencing staff with returns of flawed pins? Up the quality control and there will be more initial satisfaction and less exchanges. Simple.
markheardjr
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You assume the pins weren't introduce to make ends meet in the first place. For all we know the decision to sell pins in the beginning was to boost sales or climb into the black, or more than likely get people to go and spend money. DSF pins started instanty with it's grand opening in 2005. The first PTD didn't make an appearence until August 2006. Disney Auctions pins ended in 2006. Disney shopping has been around since 2002 and only slowed pin sales 2 years ago. Even when Disney Auctions stopped pins, DSF didn't instantly jump in popularity. DSF pins for the most sat for a while, none really sold out in hours like now. They did have sale bins for $4 pins. Haven't seen that in over 18 months. But I think DSF pins were sold to keep a steady stream of feet through the door. Back in the day the pins were on the rack for days/weeks so you picked a day convenient and went. The pins gave visiting Disney tourists a reason to stop bye when they were in Hollywood to see what was on the rack.
I probably wouldn't make multiple monthly trips to DSF if it wasn't for their pins. And I wouldn't take my family to stop there when they visit. I wouldn't tell people on here to go there if it wasn't for their pins. So the pins serve their purpose of getting more people in the door. I honestly think their popularity though is being exploited and DSF, if they are a smart business, exploits back and makes higher edition sizes. The only other options are to either do nothing and keep status quo, or to find a way to take it back to the loyalists. Which I don't see an easy way of doing. They don't have interest in limiting how many come. They want more. They want 750 people at the Iron Man event.
Back to the original topic though. About pins that aren't 100% how you want them. You are buying art that is valued for its design. We all know when it comes to painting very small pieces of metal there are bound to be anomylies and imperfections. A bubble here, a smudge there, a scratch across the middle. It's par for the course. If I were too worried I'd never wear my keepers on a peacock lanyard. But I like to show off my pins and my pin hunting successes so I wear them.
Ask yourself, what do you want to get out of this hobby? It seems to me usually the most picky are the ones that don't have many pins and sort of obsess over the pins they do have. Or they are not located near a pin selling location and they have to go to secondary market. The excitment of getting the pin and then obsessing over it is different when you only have a few or you have to wait longer for it to arrive. Get a few hundred or a few thousand and you'll worry less if you don't see a big mistake with a quick glance.
If you trade in person, you will quickly find that not everyone keeps their pins in the packages. Dragging around hundreds of pins on their cards takes up a ton of space. Pins on cards and pins without even the smallest defect are special circumstances you are putting on trading. My suggestion is worry less about the small stuff. If it's major, ok, be upset. If it's just a bubble, or a ghost smudge you can only see by tilting it...let it go. If it's a tiny scratch near the edge...eh. If it's across a characters face, then maybe complain. Ya, I'll return pins and get another if I am able to. But I don't care much unless the issue is major. Globs of extra stained glass material, paint droplets on white, blackened Free-D elements, really loose pin-on-pin elements, those are issues. Does DSF have them? Yes. Is it worth calling the BBB, Disney customer service, etc.? No.
markheardjr
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I think there is more talk about it now because of the randomized wristbands. People that typically came the earliest wanted the opportunity to trade back in for perfect pins. Now that it's potentially gonna be random and NO trading back in, you get what you get. So now there is a possibility that collectors, traders, and presellers may get a pin that some consider defective. When something doesn't go how you want it to make a scene. that's what many do these days. Perhaps a call to the ACLU is in order? If one pin trader is unhappy everyone else must conform until the one is.
iheartpins
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+1000
I'll admit that my wife can be very picky about pin quality and I'm usually the one who gets sent to the return counter multiple times to try and get a better looking pin. It doesn't feel very good when you know that you only have three chances to satisfy the wife's eagle eye. For me, as long as the pin isn't missing parts, color, or doesn't look like someone keyed the pin paint, I'm good with it. It's less than $20 bucks. What do you expect? But as my wife says, "If I had to wait in line, for days, to guarantee a chance to purchase these pins, I want a good one. Near perfect". I also get that. I don't think she'd care all that much, if she didn't have to spend so much time in that line to beat out all the other people flocking to DSF for the same pins.
I think this particular issue has popped up, because people are still mad at the Soda Fountain and they want changes. Changes to the way things are done, because they are not working so well. Both of us want higher edition sizes to try and relieve the competition to get these popular pins. We just want the pins and could largely care less about the value of a low LE size. If they refuse to up the LE size, we want a lottery. No one wants to waste time in those lines any more. Maybe a few hours to chat and trade and have fun, but no more multiple days where one has no idea what DSF is going to make up for rules and last minute changes. More pins or random selection. Get the thing over with and let people know instantly whether they can get pins safely and in a timely manner.
I think this particular issue has popped up, because people are still mad at the Soda Fountain and they want changes. Changes to the way things are done, because they are not working so well. Both of us want higher edition sizes to try and relieve the competition to get these popular pins. We just want the pins and could largely care less about the value of a low LE size. If they refuse to up the LE size, we want a lottery. No one wants to waste time in those lines any more. Maybe a few hours to chat and trade and have fun, but no more multiple days where one has no idea what DSF is going to make up for rules and last minute changes. More pins or random selection. Get the thing over with and let people know instantly whether they can get pins safely and in a timely manner.
I couldn’t put it better myself. Pins make way to much look at the basic gross sales for the Beloved Tales Pins, $12.95 x 300 = $3,885.00 (one pin) $12.95 x 1200 (4 pins) = $15,540.00 that’s just one release the whole last month gross sales for new releases where..
Jessica jumbos 4 pins: $22,740.00
Beloved Tales 4 pins: $15,540.00
Gumballs 4 pins: $17,940.00
Jessica calendar 1 pin: $5,085
To a total of: 61,305.00
This is just pins not looking at the movies, food and souvenirs. I know if over $50,000 in profit vanished from my business I would want it back
i didn't add taxes because you have to pay that back and then some every year i just payed mine this quarter and i ended up paying over 1600.00 in taxes alone and thats not even federal its just the state board of equalization
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I heard faint moans of pain coming from a darkened alley. They echoed through the street, breaking the monotonous tone of the pitter-patter of rain.
"Want me to hit em' again, Boss?" grumbled someone from the shadows.
I ducked behind a dumpster, trying to assess the situation.
"No, that's quite enough," said different voice. "We're done here."
I leaped out of cover, flashing my revolver and badge. "Stop right there!" I called out. I followed the shadows down the alley with my eyes, trying to identify the goons before they got out of sight. No luck. The battered figure lying on its side in a pile of trash didn't move a muscle. I inched toward it, still aiming my gun down down the alley. I finally got close enough when I realized that it wasn't a person at all. It was a horse.
"Why would those goons beat a dead horse?", I said out loud. It didn't make sense.
I slowly put my revolver back in its case and traded it for my flask; a weapon that deserved attention at a time like this. Some crimes shouldn't be solved..
"Want me to hit em' again, Boss?" grumbled someone from the shadows.
I ducked behind a dumpster, trying to assess the situation.
"No, that's quite enough," said different voice. "We're done here."
I leaped out of cover, flashing my revolver and badge. "Stop right there!" I called out. I followed the shadows down the alley with my eyes, trying to identify the goons before they got out of sight. No luck. The battered figure lying on its side in a pile of trash didn't move a muscle. I inched toward it, still aiming my gun down down the alley. I finally got close enough when I realized that it wasn't a person at all. It was a horse.
"Why would those goons beat a dead horse?", I said out loud. It didn't make sense.
I slowly put my revolver back in its case and traded it for my flask; a weapon that deserved attention at a time like this. Some crimes shouldn't be solved..
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If I thought there was some semblance of solidarity, I'd suggest picking a less popular release to boycott for a day. What would they do, if no one showed up one Saturday?
Pure fantasy, I know, but it would be something that might wake them up to the issues of there being not enough pins to make it fair. I mean, they keep tweaking rules to make it fair, right?
No lines. Lines. Random wristbands. Wristbands in order. Honor lines. Don't honor lines. No lines 24 hours prior. No lines, because we have a movie that no one lined up for. Oh... a lot people showed up and we are surprised so we'll expand the release to one set per person. Lines be damned! Mad lemming rush through tiny opening in fence!
Sheesh! One begins to think someone is having way too much fun running their little rats..er.. customers through the maze for their prize.
Pure fantasy, I know, but it would be something that might wake them up to the issues of there being not enough pins to make it fair. I mean, they keep tweaking rules to make it fair, right?
No lines. Lines. Random wristbands. Wristbands in order. Honor lines. Don't honor lines. No lines 24 hours prior. No lines, because we have a movie that no one lined up for. Oh... a lot people showed up and we are surprised so we'll expand the release to one set per person. Lines be damned! Mad lemming rush through tiny opening in fence!
Sheesh! One begins to think someone is having way too much fun running their little rats..er.. customers through the maze for their prize.
markheardjr
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Does Disney_Noir edit? Or is that the job of a mere mortal. I didn't think someone so eloquent would make a typo.
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LOL. Spell-check maybe, although that and/or grammar check would notice two "it" side by side.
Several people have said that DSF "isn't listening." I'm just curious as to what that means exactly? Letter campaigns? Face-to-Face meetings? Petitions? Strikes? Has any of this been done in the past? If not, we are all just a bunch of complainers with no action. You can bet that they aren't reading this forum (or taking it seriously at least).
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