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Help Change DSF

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Help Change DSF
I normally stay out of all these debates. I can hardly believe this one is still going on. I notice comments being made that have nothing to do with pin trading. I have never seen so much drama on any site as I do on this one. I came to the forum to have fun, meet new people and pin trade. Instead, I see name calling, people whining because they want a certain pin and they are mad because no one will trade for it. People post sob stories about getting infractions. Hey, if you break the rules, what do you expect? I've seen people practically BEG others to give them pins. Yikes, where is the fun in all this? Sorry, but I had to speak my mind. Maybe this isn't the place for me. I don't mean to offend, I just have a hard time understanding why it has to be this way.
 
Suzziesue said:
I normally stay out of all these debates. I can hardly believe this one is still going on. I notice comments being made that have nothing to do with pin trading. I have never seen so much drama on any site as I do on this one. I came to the forum to have fun, meet new people and pin trade. Instead, I see name calling, people whining because they want a certain pin and they are mad because no one will trade for it. People post sob stories about getting infractions. Hey, if you break the rules, what do you expect? I've seen people practically BEG others to give them pins. Yikes, where is the fun in all this? Sorry, but I had to speak my mind. Maybe this isn't the place for me. I don't mean to offend, I just have a hard time understanding why it has to be this way.
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This debate has actually been pretty civil
 
I created a fail proof system to fix pins as a whole

Step 1 : Create more pins with some sexy fur .
Step 2 :???
Step 3 : Profit .


but in reality maybe I should like have all my friends and family call corporate.and pose as unhappy. Dsf-ers and file several angry complaints but act like casuals and not hardcores just so Disney actually listens and accts on it lol

-Shawn
 
I assume that they would prefer not to honour the unofficial lines...the problem is the chaos you get when the unofficial line and the people who arrive at the announced time start jostling for position in the official line.
I obviously don't go to DSF, but it seems that you can fix things only by using random online selection, or increasing edition sizes, or getting rid of LE's outside of the parks.
 
Which is one of the major issues at hand. The mixed messages about lines is very confusing.

If they tell us that there is no lining up prior to a certain time, then anyone who is there before the time is unofficial. Right? So which line or group of people is official? Certainly not anyone who arrived sooner than the posted time.

Either accept that there will be lines, as a result of limited amount of product or go with a lottery distribution.

No lottery pretty much guarantees that there will be some sort of line and there is no magical means of keeping people from lining up for pins.

The biggest irony is that they are attached to that theater. Are they telling movie goers that they can't line up for the movie hours before the start? I don't think so. Yet they would have the same exact problem if they had an exclusive showing and only 300 people could ever see that movie. People would line up for days prior to be able to see a popular release. But since they show it over and over, there's no problem.

Same with pins. Make more available, and there won't be issues with line camping.

Its frustratingly simple to solve, so it must be an issue of it being ignored or done purposefully. Right?
 
The cynic in me thinks that they like the hype created by certain releases...because it promotes pin sales generally?
 
It could be a very valid reason. Hyping for sales. Which plays into my theory that there is some sort of bonus structure based on sales.

Im beginning to think that they know exactly which pins sell the most based on characters. Any suggestions for higher LE sizes were taken and applied to weak characters and moved slowly. Probably to "prove" that higher LE sizes don't work and sales dropped. All in an effort to keep the hype at peak levels and sell all the stock extremely quickly.

Even the pin preview at WDW may have been designed to create hype and amp up sales. Why else show pins when you don't even sell them in that side of the States? To create demand.

Now the question is... Evil genius plan or dumb luck?
 
Lamorak said:
It could be a very valid reason. Hyping for sales. Which plays into my theory that there is some sort of bonus structure based on sales.

Im beginning to think that they know exactly which pins sell the most based on characters. Any suggestions for higher LE sizes were taken and applied to weak characters and moved slowly. Probably to "prove" that higher LE sizes don't work and sales dropped. All in an effort to keep the hype at peak levels and sell all the stock extremely quickly.

Even the pin preview at WDW may have been designed to create hype and amp up sales. Why else show pins when you don't even sell them in that side of the States? To create demand.

Now the question is... Evil genius plan or dumb luck?
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O.O i have never thought of that! lol amazing
 
Ozzie1988 said:
Why are you so dead on one per person? That won’t help much. It only means the collectors there will keep the sets for their collection and the resellers and company will still have their market if not more. One per person is a ridiculous idea it only adds to hype and makes people want more since they only can get one trade out of the pin. It’s agreed that edition sized must go up that we all agree with I don’t know if there is a decent argument against it. Wrist bands and all that don’t work all; I don’t see a system that would be fair. Online comes down to whom can move through a site faster, and just limiting the amount you can buy just because more people came after and want the pin is not fair. For now let’s just hope there is a increase in edition size than we can work from there. Who knows maybe if they up the sizes there will be no need to have wristbands and or alternatives.

i know its high but 1000 would make me happy
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Until they up the edition size, 1 per person is the only way those of us that actually want the pin for our own collections can get them! I actually shop there, I actually collect their pins. I want my 1 set. I don't need a set to trade or sell. If its a release I don't need then I can get them for trade. 1 set is sufficient.
 
markheardjr said:
Until they up the edition size, 1 per person is the only way those of us that actually want the pin for our own collections can get them! I actually shop there, I actually collect their pins. I want my 1 set. I don't need a set to trade or sell. If its a release I don't need then I can get them for trade. 1 set is sufficient.
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That's just you being selfish, not all or even the majority ends up on the market, even still there get traded around to the ones that want it for there collection, like for me if it's a tangled pin I want it for my tangled collection, than I could use my second tangle to trade for other tangled pins I don't have yet. If it's just one I only move an inch in my collection rather a foot with a trade.

Not everyone in line is a reseller, a few but not the majority.
 
One per person ends up being the stop gap solution for when there is not enough product for the 300+ customers who will show up for a popular release. On one hand, it solves the problem of disappointing 150 customers who want to buy the pins for their collections. On the other hand, it disappoints all those customers who were there for extra pins to be used for traders or for pickups for friends.

Expect one per person for the Iron Man release, as that one is going to attract more than 300 people easily.

Since creating the precedent of one per person, people will not be giving up when they hear that 150 people are in line. They will continue to come, in the hopes that they can push for one per person by sheer numbers.

I hope they have a better plan than the one they used for Beloved Tales.
 
someone earlier on this page mentioned the possibility of bonus' for sales...

**years in retail management speaking here**

YES. If DSF is like the majority of other retailers, the management will get bonus's quarterly or yearly.

Bonus' based on:
  • Beating sales plan
  • staying on track with payroll
  • and reducing losses/shrink.

1 set per person will not solve the "reseller" issues. they will just bring more friends. Despite what many people think, the majority of the folks who wait in those lines are not resellers *or their employee's*

And do we need to discuss the fact that the majority of us DPF folks, at some point, have a sales thread and are thus technically "resellers"..... seriously folks, lets try not to lump all the folks who sell the extra set off into a category that is considered "evil."
 
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I know that you are all being passionate about the topic (1 per person vs. 2 per person), but let's be respectful. It's not cool to call someone selfish for advocating the 1 per person rule so that they can get the pin for their personal collection, and then justify the 2 per person rule so you can advance your own personal collection by trading the extra pin. Sounds to me like both of you are advocating based on your own best interests, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I think most agree that the best plan of action for DSF is to increase the LE size, which I hope they are seriously considering. Good luck all.
 
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Ozzie1988 said:
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That's just you being selfish, not all or even the majority ends up on the market, even still there get traded around to the ones that want it for there collection, like for me if it's a tangled pin I want it for my tangled collection, than I could use my second tangle to trade for other tangled pins I don't have yet. If it's just one I only move an inch in my collection rather a foot with a trade.

Not everyone in line is a reseller, a few but not the majority.
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Question, how is me being happy with 1 set more selfish than you wanting 2 sets??
 
If they won't increase the edition sizes, then I agree that 1 per person is fairer because it give more people the chance to own the pin.

...BUT, the problem with many of the arguments being made here is that they focus on fairness of opportunity to get the pins and/or selling more pins to collectors rather than re-sellers. Don't get me wrong...I want to buy pins at a reasonable price too, but Disney isn't going to change anything based on either of those concerns, nor should they, because they are irrelevant to the bottom line. Their primary aim, and their responsibility to their shareholders, is to maximize profit. They have the numbers, so they are very aware that if they make a certain type of pin (Tangled would be the most obvious example), people will camp out for days and the pin will sell out immediately. They could sell more of that particular pin AND make more profit per pin, because the more you make the cheaper it is to make each pin, but they don't make more. The only explanation for their failure to do so is that the hype serves a marketing purpose. Assuming that's the case, the only reason to change the way the pins are sold is to prevent violence on their property, because of the liability issues, or to prevent associated trouble that could adversely affect their public image. Frankly, a news story about hundreds of people lining up for a pin, and a little pushing, shoving, and name-calling on the neighbouring parking lot, probably increases the marketing value of these releases.
 
Safety has been one of my main themes for a little while now, after seeing the potential for violence at the Beloved Tales release. I contend that they got very lucky that they were able to control the situation. But what about next time? When you have pins that instantly jump 2 to 10 times their perceived value, the instant they are announced, there is quite a bit of potential for elevated levels of aggression to be able to acquire these pins. This is where safety can fly out the window, if the crowds go uncontrolled by either not honoring any sort of line or continuing to ignore the need for a lottery system.

There used to be a little bit of a buffer, when they allowed lines to form during the day. It allowed for a steady trickle of customers to arrive and form a line. When they started moving allowed line up times to after business hours, this created potential for larger amounts of people to gather a little offsite and make a rush for the gate as it opened "officially".

I'm not here to advocate a line, as I did in the past. DSF has destroyed the concept of a mostly civil line when they started messing with the allowable line up times. It's not safe for people to rush the gate and completely ignore a time honored system of who gets the product first; the line. It has turned into a survival of the fittest scenario where those who have mobility issues are out of luck. And even if those with mobility issues are pulled aside and allowed to get in the gate for the product, they have to endure the taunts and abuse of the crowds who are accusing them of not actually needing a wheelchair or a walker and that they are faking it to get a guaranteed shot at the product. Simply nasty and ugly behavior which should have been rewarded with an ejection, in my opinion.

The solutions are out there and why they continue to be ignored is a point of frustration for me and possibly many others.
 
markheardjr said:
Question, how is me being happy with 1 set more selfish than you wanting 2 sets??
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Becuse not everyone will be ok with one pin, look at the park pins how many only buy one? Or when it is at DSF how many only buy one set? If they realy just wanted one they would be buying one only. There is a reason so many want two sets
 
unibear said:
I know that you are all being passionate about the topic (1 per person vs. 2 per person), but let's be respectful. It's not cool to call someone selfish for advocating the 1 per person rule so that they can get the pin for their personal collection, and then justify the 2 per person rule so you can advance your own personal collection by trading the extra pin. Sounds to me like both of you are advocating based on your own best interests, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I think most agree that the best plan of action for DSF is to increase the LE size, which I hope they are seriously considering. Good luck all.
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Yea I can see how it sounds selfish, let's not forget Why DSF is so popular. Low edition sizes they trade Well, look at my wants list not much is left and the stuff that is is hard. The point of this hobby is to get pins and trade for ones you want. You can't always make everyone happy, and it'd not fare to limit everyone's number just to make it fare. That's the point of a limited edition item the fact that few get them. It keeps the hobby alive and going.
 
I think there are valid reasons for both being satisfied with one set per person and two sets per person. There's no need to bring up a subject like being selfish if a singular amount makes you happy or if multiple sets make you happy. The one or two sets per person is actually a distraction from the real problem of not meeting demand, due to limited supply.

It's fine if DSF want to continue with the low LE numbers. I personally think they should increase it, as there are far more benefits to increasing the availability of product than not. What they should be focusing on is safety. Is it safe to continue the way they have been going? I think not. The numbers of people showing up to releases are increasing and the crowds are obviously bigger. The stakes are bigger.

People who collect feel pressured to beat out everyone else to get a pin set.
People who trade feel pressured to beat out everyone else to get a pin set.
People who sell feel pressured to beat out everyone else to get a pin set.

This all leads to some people pushing and shoving their way to the front, knowing that they will be rewarded with a pin set. Not safe at all. What will relieve pressure is, yet again, increasing the amount of product available or lottery system to only allow those who won to show up and make the crowds managable.

For now, they can't increase LE sizes for the pin sets already manufactured. They will likely have to go with 1 set per person to keep things somewhat calm.
 
I am sorry selfish was a strong and wrong choice of words. I see your point Adam and I do recall the bt release it was crazy, because DSF knew what was going and would have been to blame if someone got hurt
 
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