Pin Thief...

[Rasputin]

I also need the PM of their forum name.

 

[docfish2u]

Just got to say the name WILL NOT BE LISTED OR GIVEN. Please stop asking
The person got his pins back and we should just be happy its over.
I don't think that guy will steal again after this scare.
Just please people keep in mind to never leave your pin bag out of sight at parties.

I disagree, the name will be given to anybody who wants it. Why stop asking? Everybody who might have dealings with this person deserves to know what happened. Why do you think this person would not steal again? If he did it once why wouldn't he do it again if he gets the chance?

Yes people should keep an eye on their pinbooks, but how about people not steal. Pin parties are supposed to be fun.

 

[Molly]

FYI it is illegal to record a phone conversation without the permission of BOTH parties here in California. I would also question why the recording would be stopped precisely at the point where the person recording the call asks the alleged thief "why did you say I took the pins?"

This is so far beyond slippery slope and lynch mob mentality. We only have heard one side of the story and to accept something as fact just because someone proclaims it as fact is not what civilized people do. If in fact everything that has been said is true why hasn't the alleged "thief" made a statement anywhere? If the person is not a member here I do not understand why this thread was posted to begin with. That's like posting a warning about a local trader here in Nor.Cal when they couldn't defend themselves....just seems inappropriate to me.

There is so much insane drama in that circle that it seems completely reasonable to me that if one person wanted to start problems for the other all they would have to do is put something in their bag and then call them out for it. Mind you some of the people involved in this fiasco are the people behind the "Confessions of a Disney Pin Trader" I think pretty much everyone can agree (even fans of the page) that it takes a certain type of personality to constantly be the epicenter of the most vile, trashy and constant bashing and flat out verbal abuse of people just because they feel safe behind anonymity or the safety of being an internet gangster. Maybe it's the so cal way of doing things? Let people talk as much crap as possible online but when you see them say nothing? Umm coward much? It's good to be good and it's bad to be bad.

Stealing is is bad, I would not wish being robbed on my worst enemy. However simply saying that someone is guilty and without actually seeing or hearing the other side of the story, I would hope that more people would reserve judgment. It just seems to me that allowing one persons word against no response at all to validate the accusation is wrong.

I have no direct knowledge of ANY of the events, I have not spoken to nor do I know ANY of the people involved personally. I just can't help but feel that once again someone is being targeted as guilty (yes some people are guilty of horrible things but seem to be forgiven repeatedly) and people are accepting it as fact. While I have seen people confess directly to some shady crap and the forum comes in and supports them! What if the next time it was you or a real friend being accused and strung out?

I want to urge people to treat each other the way you would hope to be treated yourself and most of us wouldn't want to be found guilty of something simply because "he said that she said that they said that this dude is guilty because someone somewhere heard that this other chick heard that her friend heard that he did it"

 

[SoraPandora]

I disagree, the name will be given to anybody who wants it. Why stop asking? Everybody who might have dealings with this person deserves to know what happened. Why do you think this person would not steal again? If he did it once why wouldn't he do it again if he gets the chance?

Yes people should keep an eye on their pinbooks, but how about people not steal. Pin parties are supposed to be fun.

I've been off the forum for the past week (with the exception of a couple threads I'm subscribed to), so this is the first I've seen this post.

David! Could you please PM me the "pin thief"'s name when you get a chance? I think I know who this is about, but I'm not positive...

Thanks so much, in advance. :hug:

 

[jennisney]

I disagree, the name will be given to anybody who wants it. Why stop asking? Everybody who might have dealings with this person deserves to know what happened. Why do you think this person would not steal again? If he did it once why wouldn't he do it again if he gets the chance?

Yes people should keep an eye on their pinbooks, but how about people not steal. Pin parties are supposed to be fun.

+1 to that!!!!! It's always important to be vigilant about your items so they don't get stolen, but people should just not steal and ruin things for others!!!!!

 

[rik1138]

@rik...You paint an interesting scenario, but if I may, let me spin it a little differently and the fact that this actually happened to people I know

As well as Disney Pins, I also belong to a website dedicated to Transformers. When the first live action movie was being made, someone quoted something from the forum of the director, gave proper credit, quoted it word for word, no changes, etc. Because it was such an interesting idea, the fan community was quite divided on the issue, and the post on the fan site literally blew up. It got so loud and prolific and while it was heated, most of what was said was valid on both the pro and the con side of the issue. It got so big, it was actually brought to the attention of the director that evening, who in turn contacted the owner of the forum, the mods of the forum, and the original poster and basically threatened legal action against all those contacted if the thread did not disappear. No one did anything wrong, but legal action was threatened, and since the director probably had a better legal team than any of the mods, the poster, etc, since that is a fan site and moderator/posted on for FREE, the thread was retired. How does that apply here:

I have not read this thread past this post yet (somewhere on page 2), but this is _EXACTLY_ what I was saying.

When someone threatened legal action (even if they don't necessarily have a legal leg to stand on), _that's_ when the mods would be expected to take action. The original material was, essentially, taken without permission from the original writer (the director). Regardless of credit being given, it's the director's copyrighted material if it came from his blog. He has every right in the world to demand you take it down. No one was doing anything wrong unless the forum refused to remove it.

That, I should point out, has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion here. Nobody is taking someone else's written work and posting, they are trying to protect other members (and their friends) from _BEING ROBBED_. The mods seem to have an issue with members of this community protecting each _BASED ON NOTHING_. (Unless maybe my original joke assumption is actually true?)

As I have pointed out, the original poster might be 100% correct with their statement, their facts, etc. However, as this did not occur on DPF, there is no way the mods/admin can swear by that fact, so it has been the practice of the mods before us, and probably after us, unless we change the policy, to remove the name from public viewing as we are acting on the side of caution in this case.

That's right, you have no idea if it is or isn't true. So why edit it all (thus getting directly involved), when you have no knowledge of the facts at all? That doesn't look like 'erring on the side of caution', that looks _exactly_ like you are protecting the criminals, period.

If someone is making slanderous comments, someone else might decide to seek legal action. Legal action will take the same form as what happened in your example if they decide to come after the forum. I.e., you get a letter:
'Delete this thread or we sue'
So, you delete the thread, and state that it was deleted under threat of legal action.

No harm done, you can't be called a protector of criminals, and no one goes to court. You won't just get a summons to show up in court, you get a written order of what to do first. You go to court if you have the balls to say 'No', and believe me, everyone is completely fine if you choose to comply at this point. We can't all be like Ethan. :lol:

'Erring on the side of caution' is removing the threads the instant you are threatened with legal action (as opposed to saying 'tough, we don't edit threads' and see if they really do take you to court). Randomly editing threads just because... Well, I can't think of any legit reason, is simply censorship (and, as I've stated many times, and act that results in protecting criminals and subjecting all the other members of this community to those criminal activities).

_THINK_ about it for a minute. You buy/sell/trade pins too. Do you honestly think it's okay to hide the identity of these criminals while member after member joins to discuss pins only to find out they have a bunch of fake ones, or that someone just got scammed by X-person _AGAIN_. Then to have all the veterans go 'Oh yeah, never deal with that person, but sorry we couldn't tell you that in advance.'

It's just not a polite, kind, caring, friendly way to run a community environment...

Now please consider the following points (wearing my administrator hat): in this particular instance, if I understand the situation correctly (I am not on Facebook), the pin theft and subsequent aftermath did not take place on DPF. The only thing that has to do with DPF is that some (all?) of the participants are members. DPF Staff are not and cannot be either the internet police nor the pin police. Our jurisdiction ends when one leaves DPF's site; we (being Staff) have no authority over anything that happens outside of our little corner of the internet.

You may have no authority over it, but by being a forum of the hobby, and a hub of information for those member, all activities pertaining to pin collecting can be brought up here.

I don't know what you mean by not being the 'internet or pin police'... By editing threads, you are being exactly that. You are policing the threads and removing content that you _still_ can't give a specific and valid reason for doing other than just 'erring on the side of caution', which means nothing.

As a member of the pin trading community, I understand wanting to be warned about and protected against those who are out to steal from and take advantage of others. I do understand why you might want these members publicly named and a 'bad trader/seller' list established. As an administrator, such a list is a disaster waiting to happen: the threat of libel. While truth is a defense against libel, we don't want to have to prove the allegations that someone is a bad trader, seller, etc are true to avoid legal trouble - and we live in such a litigious society that someone either would sue or threaten to sue.

_YOU_ (the forum) can't be sued for someone posting something on your forum. One of two things would happen, worse case scenario:
1- The mods are asked to remove a thread/post for these reasons [statement of reasons]
2- The member that posted the thread/post would be sued for libel

The FORUM didn't do anything that would be considered libel. That's like suing a car manufacturer because someone used their car to drive over people.
If #1 happened, and you ignored the request, _THAT'S_ when the forum is at fault (and only then).

The forum is at no legal risk unless they ignore a legal request. And even those are very rare since the people being called out generally don't want to attract legal attention to themselves...

Furthermore, as was pointed out, this is a very slippery slope. Some of the names on the list might be merited, but others might be submitted for revenge, and once a name is on the list, that reputation is damaged (even if the name ultimately is removed) - and in pin trading, reputation is everything. Believe it or not, this isn't the first time a 'bad trader/seller' list was requested; it was requested and declined almost like clockwork on Dizpins - with very good reason.

I'd love to know this 'Very good reason'. The only thing I ever heard was that one of the people that ran that board was afraid they'd get sued of someone just wrote 'damn' on the forum, much less calling someone else out for theft...

Reputation is everything, and if you have a good reputation you can easily shoot down a 'revenge' post someone might try to make. That doesn't even make sense. The reason you call someone out as a thief on a forum like is because you _WANT_ them to try to defend themselves (and to protect others of course). If someone comes forward, states their side of things and a mutual agreement is achieved, then all is good... And in this day and age of instant gratification, a week after someone's name is removed from the list no one will even remember...

Does anyone here remember the names on the 'Bad seller' list that used to be accessible on the internet? Does anyone here even still remember that the list existed?

I would just remind everyone that if people left the appropriate feedback, much of this wouldn't be necessary. Correctly left feedback would act as a bad trader/seller list in and of itself. All everyone would need to do is check the latest feedback left to figure out the identities, although given enough time, that won't be necessary for the really bad traders/sellers. Eventually the bad traders/sellers would accumulate so much bad feedback that their resulting low scores would make their identities painfully obvious.

But it's not just sellers that are members here... What about all the sellers on eBay from China selling scrappers? People that scan on Instagram, Facebook, etc...

A feedback system only works if it's truly global, which is what a list of bad sellers would be. Or the occasional thread calling out someone for criminal activity...

Just a note, my comments aren't about this one situation in particular, I'm talking about in general throughout the hobby...

 

[Ozzie1988]

i've known him since 4th grade and i was completely devastated, i stood by him and it was just a big slap to the face when he finally admitted to taking the pins, then he kicked me by his string of bad unsupported lies, finally stabbed me in the back by changing his story to insist he was framed by one of my friends.


No innocent person would keep known stolen pins for almost a month, let alone trade one and fake a story to claim he traded for the other. the pins returned had the same flaws and of course admitted to taking them.

 

[mistressofevil]

i've known him since 4th grade and i was completely devastated, i stood by him and it was just a big slap to the face when he finally admitted to taking the pins, then he kicked me by his string of bad unsupported lies, finally stabbed me in the back by changing his story to insist he was framed by one of my friends.


No innocent person would keep known stolen pins for almost a month, let alone trade one and fake a story to claim he traded for the other. The pins returned had the same flaws and of course admitted to taking them.

truth!

 

[jmw1976]

post removed as the quoted party has no actual knowledge of the situation and quoting her would only inflame her baseless argument.

 

[PurpleRose]

FYI it is illegal to record a phone conversation without the permission of BOTH parties here in California. I would also question why the recording would be stopped precisely at the point where the person recording the call asks the alleged thief "why did you say I took the pins?"

This is so far beyond slippery slope and lynch mob mentality. We only have heard one side of the story and to accept something as fact just because someone proclaims it as fact is not what civilized people do. If in fact everything that has been said is true why hasn't the alleged "thief" made a statement anywhere? If the person is not a member here I do not understand why this thread was posted to begin with. That's like posting a warning about a local trader here in Nor.Cal when they couldn't defend themselves....just seems inappropriate to me.

There is so much insane drama in that circle that it seems completely reasonable to me that if one person wanted to start problems for the other all they would have to do is put something in their bag and then call them out for it. Mind you some of the people involved in this fiasco are the people behind the "Confessions of a Disney Pin Trader" I think pretty much everyone can agree (even fans of the page) that it takes a certain type of personality to constantly be the epicenter of the most vile, trashy and constant bashing and flat out verbal abuse of people just because they feel safe behind anonymity or the safety of being an internet gangster. Maybe it's the so cal way of doing things? Let people talk as much crap as possible online but when you see them say nothing? Umm coward much? It's good to be good and it's bad to be bad.

Stealing is is bad, I would not wish being robbed on my worst enemy. However simply saying that someone is guilty and without actually seeing or hearing the other side of the story, I would hope that more people would reserve judgment. It just seems to me that allowing one persons word against no response at all to validate the accusation is wrong.

I have no direct knowledge of ANY of the events, I have not spoken to nor do I know ANY of the people involved personally. I just can't help but feel that once again someone is being targeted as guilty (yes some people are guilty of horrible things but seem to be forgiven repeatedly) and people are accepting it as fact. While I have seen people confess directly to some shady crap and the forum comes in and supports them! What if the next time it was you or a real friend being accused and strung out?

I want to urge people to treat each other the way you would hope to be treated yourself and most of us wouldn't want to be found guilty of something simply because "he said that she said that they said that this dude is guilty because someone somewhere heard that this other chick heard that her friend heard that he did it"

The person who stole the pins is a forum member here. I believe he liked to frequent FB more and actually came out and posted through FB that he indeed take the pins, but I have seen him post here several times on auctions and other threads.

 

[BabyDawn]

I just want to say that I am also a part of the pin groups on facebook. I read and saw when all of this went down. It got very ugly. Those who read it would agree. The thief came on and comment himself that he did it and that he was sorry. But he kept changing his story. Yes there is 2 sides of a story. He did tell his on there. One excuse was he was drunk and did not realize those pins in his bag till later. But still he got caught trading the pins and admitted to everything. The good thing is the person got there pins back. Not everyone that has pins stolen has been that lucky to get their pins back.

 

[ElysionsPrincess]

I would also like this trader's name here on DPF please. Thank you!

 

[jmw1976]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Best possible option when you are not educated on a subject? Say nothing.

You should follow your own advice., especially after asking for his information so you could "steer clear of him."

 

[jmw1976]

I would also like this trader's name here on DPF please. Thank you!

Information sent.

 

[reeneibakini]

I saw this on Facebook as well it's so sad you can't trust "friends" around your pins. But I am so glad they got their pins back. Luckily my pin trading is a bit of a dark secret and my friends (if I had any) know nothing about it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rik1138]

FYI it is illegal to record a phone conversation without the permission of BOTH parties here in California.

Actually, that can depend on how the call was recorded... If he was on speaker phone and there were other people around, the call would likely not be considered a 'confidential conversation', and then the two-party consent statute wouldn't apply... Usually when using a cell phone this is the easiest way to record a call...

if it was done with a wire-tap type device or some other more 'covert' way, that would likely be illegal...

 

[Disneycollector4994]

FYI it is illegal to record a phone conversation without the permission of BOTH parties here in California. I would also question why the recording would be stopped precisely at the point where the person recording the call asks the alleged thief "why did you say I took the pins?"

This is so far beyond slippery slope and lynch mob mentality. We only have heard one side of the story and to accept something as fact just because someone proclaims it as fact is not what civilized people do. If in fact everything that has been said is true why hasn't the alleged "thief" made a statement anywhere? If the person is not a member here I do not understand why this thread was posted to begin with. That's like posting a warning about a local trader here in Nor.Cal when they couldn't defend themselves....just seems inappropriate to me.

There is so much insane drama in that circle that it seems completely reasonable to me that if one person wanted to start problems for the other all they would have to do is put something in their bag and then call them out for it. Mind you some of the people involved in this fiasco are the people behind the "Confessions of a Disney Pin Trader" I think pretty much everyone can agree (even fans of the page) that it takes a certain type of personality to constantly be the epicenter of the most vile, trashy and constant bashing and flat out verbal abuse of people just because they feel safe behind anonymity or the safety of being an internet gangster. Maybe it's the so cal way of doing things? Let people talk as much crap as possible online but when you see them say nothing? Umm coward much? It's good to be good and it's bad to be bad.

Stealing is is bad, I would not wish being robbed on my worst enemy. However simply saying that someone is guilty and without actually seeing or hearing the other side of the story, I would hope that more people would reserve judgment. It just seems to me that allowing one persons word against no response at all to validate the accusation is wrong.

I have no direct knowledge of ANY of the events, I have not spoken to nor do I know ANY of the people involved personally. I just can't help but feel that once again someone is being targeted as guilty (yes some people are guilty of horrible things but seem to be forgiven repeatedly) and people are accepting it as fact. While I have seen people confess directly to some shady crap and the forum comes in and supports them! What if the next time it was you or a real friend being accused and strung out?

I want to urge people to treat each other the way you would hope to be treated yourself and most of us wouldn't want to be found guilty of something simply because "he said that she said that they said that this dude is guilty because someone somewhere heard that this other chick heard that her friend heard that he did it"

I agree
this post has got too dramatic and it shouldn't be any of our business to interfere and make judgments.
the pins are back end of story
only thing to worry about is pin trading on the internet but heck this person isn't the only one who would steal
what we can learn is to be more careful and if anything goes wrong REPORT IT.
Further more I advise those who would consider stealing to think about if its worth it and knowing you would be hurt and angry if someone does it to you.

 

[Molly]

@rik Regardless of the recording device or possible speaker phone, recording a phone call without BOTH PARTIES (the two people on each end of the connected call) being fully aware that it is being recorded is against the law period. Doesn't matter if you record it on a old timey phonograph, cell phone, wire tap, answering machine, greeting card etc. I can only speak on current laws in CA but I am absolutely positive on his as we just had this come up a couple of months ago in my office and the judge was extremely pissed off at opposing council for trying to argue something very similar to your speaker phone negates a private/confidential call example. Clearly if and when someone is told that their call will be recorded there are things that would never be said or the person opposed to being recorded simply hangs up.

Not a lot of people sitting in prison for this offense lol but it is also not admissible as evidence as this particular issue contains none of the circumstances in which a judge can choose to allow it.

 

[unibear]

I keep reading that "the original owner got his/her pins back, so we should let it go." But it is also stated in one of the posts that he traded away the Belle Designer pin before he got caught, so did the original owner get this pin back? If not, then let's stop with all of the "no harm done" nonsense. Just saying.

 

[Merryweather]

One excuse was he was drunk and did not realize those pins in his bag till later.

 

[OlafOlaf]

I keep reading that "the original owner got his/her pins back, so we should let it go." But it is also stated in one of the posts that he traded away the Belle Designer pin before he got caught, so did the original owner get this pin back? If not, then let's stop with all of the "no harm done" nonsense. Just saying.

I do think all owners got their pins back, including the Belle Designer owner.

But to be honest, even if all owners got their pin back the "no harm done" line seems a bit light to use. I truly believe that if no one put pressure on this situation, this "pin thief" would never come clear with it (and yes this is my personal belief, I realise that). People have to see the fact that he traded away the Belle Designer and many people saw him try and trade the BT on Facebook as well. I wouldn't be surprised he would trade the other pins as well.

Given the fact that these owners got their pins back, many people lost trust.

 

[Masamune]

So like...are people still gonna be friends with this person? I'm seeing a lot of "well they gave the pins back so no harm done" here, which I totally don't understand.

I would very much like this person's name/PinPics/DPF/etc so that I can protect myself. =/ I don't see any harm in wanting to do that.

 

[jmw1976]

The Lion King BT and Designer Belle belonged to the same person and the pins were returned, along with the two frozen pins from DSSH. This isn't the first time the accused has been said to have sticky fingers, but this is the first time he's been caught. Despite Molly's personal bias against Ozzie1988...I am the poster of this information on DPF and only did so after all items were returned. I am Also one of a handful of witness to what had occurred when he was confronted at a trading event. The situation isn't made up and harm has still been done because the person who he traded the Belle to was dragged into this and there are several people thinking that it's ok to steal or he apologized so move on...nope.

there are several other comments throughout this post that having nothing to do with anything regarding the original post, but are only meant to inflame or create further issues...please stop, your legal advice isnt warranted (you aren't a lawyer) and working at a law firm makes you one as much as me working at a university makes me a physics professor. unless you have the facts, please stop commenting, you aren't helping the situation. If you want the names used by the thief, message me, I'll provide what is known.

 

[pinbum]

some of my pins have been stolen at disneyland can someone PM me who this criminal is

 

[NBCzero]

I appreciate being informed of this situation and thank the people that felt the need to fellow keep traders informed. I think the people that were wronged by this individual have shown a lot of class and restraint and the person that took the pins should be very thankful of that.

Dixie