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Trade Auction Rules Posted

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Trade Auction Rules Posted
erudolf

erudolf

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Sorry if this was already posted somewhere but I didn't see anyone talking about it and I thought it was important for it to be pointed out so that people see it.

Grim has posted rules for the Trade Auctions section. Please read them!

http://disneypinforum.com/showthread.php?14805-General-Rules


My main question on this is how the existing auction activity is going to be handled because there are quite a few auctions that have already started which are not compliant with these new rules. Many of the people with these listings probably haven't even seen the new rules yet. I just think it is important to have everyone on the same page.

:wavey:
 
I just saw them after I closed my auction. I assume the new rules qualify for new auctions and not ones started before the rules were in place? I closed mine and and then saw the rules so I will know for next time that there can not be a reserve nor can it be closed early. :bigthumb:

I will definitely have to be careful about what I plan to auction with the no reserve rule. How horrible would it be to put up a great pin and there only be one person wanting it so they take advantage of that an offer one hidden mickey which you are then forced to accept? :crazy::rofl:
 
heyyouwannatrade said:
I will definitely have to be careful about what I plan to auction with the no reserve rule. How horrible would it be to put up a great pin and there only be one person wanting it so they take advantage of that an offer one hidden mickey which you are then forced to accept? :crazy::rofl:
Click to expand...

I will probably not partake in the "Auctioning" side of this anymore unless I have a pin I am willing to let go for any other pin, etc. I will still bid of course as I think this is a cool idea. I closed my existing auction after someone posted about the new rules, and I had a couple of more planned but now I will have to think on them

I posted a question about this in the help desk

Question about new Auction Forum Rules
 
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I like the rules and think they're fairly straight forward. I was never a fan of the auctions with a reserve to not trade if no good offers are made so hopefully this lessens the amount of auctions that are just taking up space if since the reserve might be too high a price anyone is willing to bid.
 
I have to agree with heyyouwannatrade and broncobilly. I had thought about starting a trading auction, but I would be much less likely to do one (or to offer pins that might get serious interest) if no reserve is possible and I must trade the pin away even if I don't think the trade is fair.

Reserve prices are very common in "traditional" auctions and on eBay, and I think it's a mistake not to have that option here...
 
I understand the grief of no reserve... but putting a reserve is the same thing as just calling it a TRADING thread. In a trading thread you will hear the offers and if you find something you like for it, you will trade it, if not, then you will hold on to your pin. I guess people just got too excited with the AUCTIONS threads that they feel a TRADE thread is no longer needed.
 
dalakersrnumba1 said:
I understand the grief of no reserve... but putting a reserve is the same thing as just calling it a TRADING thread. In a trading thread you will hear the offers and if you find something you like for it, you will trade it, if not, then you will hold on to your pin. I guess people just got too excited with the AUCTIONS threads that they feel a TRADE thread is no longer needed.
Click to expand...

The other side of that is like what I posted in my question to the mods/admin. A trade thread looks at trades/wants and offers are based on that. Looking at the auction thread, as a "bidder" I might see something I never considered before, and as a "auctioneer", I might get offered something not considered before as well, i.e. something not from my want list.
 
So what if someone places an amazing offer and that stifles competitors (i.e., nobody offers anything because they can't compete). Then, this person changes their offer at the last minute to a HM. Now the person auctioning the pin has to take the new offer?

If auctioners can't close the auction early and can't set a reserve, then bidders shouldn't be able to change their offers either. They could make another offer, but the original offer should still be on the table!
 
broncobilly83 said:
The other side of that is like what I posted in my question to the mods/admin. A trade thread looks at trades/wants and offers are based on that. Looking at the auction thread, as a "bidder" I might see something I never considered before, and as a "auctioneer", I might get offered something not considered before as well, i.e. something not from my want list.
Click to expand...

Here's a start. In your trade thread, just say it upfront: "I am also willing to trade for pins I don't have on my wants list so please do enlighten me with pins that may catch my eyes."

I'm not trying to be a smart-tush but it's not that difficult to mention that. My friend started a trading thread and got offered some pins not on their wants without having to mention that so it's not a far stretch... but I guess I can see where you're coming from. KIND OF...
 
unibear said:
If auctioners can't close the auction early and can't set a reserve, then bidders shouldn't be able to change their offers either. They could make another offer, but the original offer should still be on the table!
Click to expand...

While the current autions rules make sense to me, adding this last one would be wise too. Currently there is no mention of bid changes or retractions, but they can (and should) definitely look into it.

I can definitely see pros and cons to having a reserve. Time will prove what works better.
 
unibear said:
If auctioners can't close the auction early and can't set a reserve, then bidders shouldn't be able to change their offers either. They could make another offer, but the original offer should still be on the table!
Click to expand...

This is a very good point. I think all posts on an auction thread shold not be editable. Bid retractions would need to be approved by both parties.
 
Something else I noticed, looking at the rules, they do not specify whether bids must be posted or can be PMed. I think there should be no PM bids, only posted so others can see what they going against
 
unibear said:
So what if someone places an amazing offer and that stifles competitors (i.e., nobody offers anything because they can't compete). Then, this person changes their offer at the last minute to a HM. Now the person auctioning the pin has to take the new offer?

If auctioners can't close the auction early and can't set a reserve, then bidders shouldn't be able to change their offers either. They could make another offer, but the original offer should still be on the table!
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the rules. People could so easily change a bid b/c there are no others and then you are forced to take that bid when they originally had a great offer in. If they take that offer and change it minutes before the auction ends I would certainly NOT trade with that person! ;)
 
Maybe one of the problems is that people are being too respectful??? (odd I know! but hear me out on this one...) Nobody wants to be rude and submit a lowball offer which is why so many auctions aren't getting bids. But in true tradition of an auction, it is supposed to start low and get raised by the biders.

Look at ebay. If the mother of all holy grails gets listed with a starting bid of 99 cents the first bidder may be willing to pay $400 but the price doesn't jump to $400 the moment they bid. It is at 99 cents until someone else raises it.

So, maybe this would work better if people weren't afraid to open with a lowball offer???? Say a pin pops up that I don't really care about, but hey, I'll bid a hidden mickey for it. That might prompt someone else to come in and say, "well geeze, I'll give you two hidden mickeys before I'll let someone get it for one..." and the next person, "well I can top that with an LE 1000" and so on.

Maybe that's the element that is missing???
 
Put us down on the list for WANTING a reserve. BUT if the rule is going to stay then I think there should be a few other things added.

As stated above, original offers should NOT be edited. Last thing I need is someone offering me the R/C Rapunzel Chaser for a high end pin (in my dreams) and then NOBODY else bids, so they change it to a hidden mickey with 4000 trading and 2 wanting at the very end and since that's the only bid I "have" to take it. If a bid is to be changed, it should be put into a NEW post and it cannot be a dramatic downgrade as stated above. If a bid is to be retracted, I think that should be allowed as long as it is within a certain time limit BEFORE the auction ends. The reason should also be stated for the retraction. Ex: we put in a bid on someone's auction, but ended up having to sell the pin to pay off a bill. We retracted the bid stating why, but there was still over a day left on the auction so plenty of time for others to still bid.

If there is NO reserve, then I think we should be allowed to post restrictions on our auctions. Ex: No hidden mickey/cast lanyards, No rack pins, only pins from our wants list, only a certain character, etc.

In the event that there is only one bidder, or a few bids that are obviously WAY lopsided, I think that we should be able to either have a mod step in and determine that the pin should not HAVE to be traded or have a public poll. I'm NOT calling ANYONE a shark on this forum, but it will help to avoid people from only bidding low end pins to try to get something for nothing. There are also a lot of new traders that may not know values on certain pins. Yes I know everyone values pins differently, but there should be SOME sort of "reserve value" on them. Ex: We don't collect Jessica pins, so we don't value them very highly. But that doesn't mean we think they are worth a rack pin, as we KNOW many Jessica pins are insanely hard to get.

And a little side question not on reserves, but can someone explain to me the reason for posting "top 3 bidders" but NOT putting them in the top 3 order? I mean, if you know you're only in 2nd place and it's something you REALLY want then I would want to know who is above me so I can increase my bid! Not only does the OP get more of their wants/better bids, but the trader also gets the pin they want. On eBay, it tells you if you are the highest bidder, if you're not, then you have to keep bidding until you are. This is just my thought behind it, but if someone has an explanation to the other way around we'd love to hear it because it's been something that's puzzled us since these auctions started.
 
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see, now I have to agree with the rules. I use Ebay for refference because well, it is a auction site. Heres why...

When a person auctions something, anything. They are taking the risk that they wont get what they think is a good amount. Cash or otherwise. Take horse auctions. A horse worth thousands might sell for 500 if the wrong bidders are present. Setting a pin reserve, or limiting the bid offers to specific pins is not an auction. its an "open trade offer." It also takes away the auction element.

On ebay, when you set up an auction, you set a minimum bid, this is a cash site. I cannot tell you how many times recently my pins have sold at the minimum bid when I know they are worth more. Its a risk I take. Offering a pin for "auction" here on DPF, with a requirement that it only be Tangled, or PODM's or DLRP PTN's is not an auction at all. Its an open trade request and should be treated as such, on the trade boards. "For trade to the right offer," would be my guess at wording.

On ebay, when you set up an auction, you cannot end it early. Only fixed price listings can be ended early. So again, this rule makes total sense.

However, on ebay you can increase your bid. So yes, bidders should be able to add to their offer, not change it, but increase it. Also the idea of offering "This" orrrr "this instead," should not be permitted. Its a bid, not a trade offer.

If you don't like it, dont "auction" your pin. I also seriously doubt a decent pin is going to have a hidden mickey winner. Just sayin'.

My 5 cents.
 
Hi all!! Thanks for asking questions, and voicing your concerns. It's great to hear from everyone and know what you think of what's going on. Since this auction thing is new to all of us, we expected to hear a lot from you guys, and thankfully for all of us, these rules are not set in concrete [yet]. I'm open to hear what you have to say, and if you want to chat, I'll be in the chat room for the next 4 hours! Woot!! A few things first:

1) The posted rules will be in effect to all auctions started after the posting of the rules. All auctions that were posted AND began before the posting of the rules will still abide by the rules posted in their specific original post.

2) Reserves -- I'm open to opinion on this, but TBH, I don't see it changing. As Ricky might say... "You've got a lot of 'splainin' to do!!" The reason reserves were decided NOT to be allowed is because we do not want "auctions" to be posted where a member is just fishing to see what they can get for a pin, with no actual intention of trading the pin in the end. Since pin trading has such an unusual way of valuing pins any way, we found it next to impossible to find a way to accurately describe how a reserve could be set. If you're looking for specific pins for your pin or pin set, you should consider making your post in the TRADE section of these forums instead. Honestly, I've really yet to see shallow offers for a high end pin, so I really don't see it being a problem with posting high end pins. BUT AGAIN -- If you have a better idea, I'd love to hear it.

unibear said:
So what if someone places an amazing offer and that stifles competitors (i.e., nobody offers anything because they can't compete). Then, this person changes their offer at the last minute to a HM. Now the person auctioning the pin has to take the new offer?

If auctioners can't close the auction early and can't set a reserve, then bidders shouldn't be able to change their offers either. They could make another offer, but the original offer should still be on the table!
Click to expand...

3) Now, this is a great question, and is something that we really hadn't considered. Personally, I really don't like the idea of "changing" bids, or "reserving" places to bid, and I thought we had made rules against this. I'll have to consult back to our notes. Does every one agree that changing/retracting bids should not be allowed? If so, we can look into making posts in the Auction House un-editable once posted. It might take some time though, and I can't say it will happen.

So keep on posting the questions, or stop by in chat! We're listening :)
 
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I saw this on another auction, and was thinking about the whole reserve question:

I will consider any decent offer that is similar to my wants
Click to expand...

Is that a reserve. If all they get offered is Hidden Mickeys, and they do not have Hidden Mickeys on their wants, is the auction over without a winner?
 
Psycho Pixie said:
see, now I have to agree with the rules. I use Ebay for refference because well, it is a auction site. Heres why...

When a person auctions something, anything. They are taking the risk that they wont get what they think is a good amount. Cash or otherwise. Take horse auctions. A horse worth thousands might sell for 500 if the wrong bidders are present. Setting a pin reserve, or limiting the bid offers to specific pins is not an auction. its an "open trade offer." It also takes away the auction element.

On ebay, when you set up an auction, you set a minimum bid, this is a cash site. I cannot tell you how many times recently my pins have sold at the minimum bid when I know they are worth more. Its a risk I take. Offering a pin for "auction" here on DPF, with a requirement that it only be Tangled, or PODM's or DLRP PTN's is not an auction at all. Its an open trade request and should be treated as such, on the trade boards. "For trade to the right offer," would be my guess at wording.

On ebay, when you set up an auction, you cannot end it early. Only fixed price listings can be ended early. So again, this rule makes total sense.

However, on ebay you can increase your bid. So yes, bidders should be able to add to their offer, not change it, but increase it. Also the idea of offering "This" orrrr "this instead," should not be permitted. Its a bid, not a trade offer.

If you don't like it, dont "auction" your pin. I also seriously doubt a decent pin is going to have a hidden mickey winner. Just sayin'.

My 5 cents.
Click to expand...


Just a side note - You can end an auction on ebay anytime you want. You simply click end item and choose a reason. It does not matter if there are bids on it or not. ;)
 
I personally do not like the auction concept. I believe, especially with the higher valued pins, many have simply been “fishing expeditions”. However, I can see why some people might want to do auctions. One reason is simply to trade, especially if you have such limited wants or traders. Another reason is to get different pins you might not necessarily originally be interested in.

That being said, I disagree with this policy of “no reserves.” Reserves / minimum bids are common place at ever auction. This policy will most likely cause the auctions to disappear. If DPF wishes to get rid of the auctions, it would simpler and easier to get rid of the practice.

If DPF is to allow “auctions” then it should allow “reserves” aka “minimum bids”. That being said, these “reserves” MUST be explicit and quantifiable. As example, my minimum bid / reserve might be “ no Buttons, Pin Accessories, Hidden Mickeys, Vinylmation pins or a pins with more people trading then wanting.” Or a minimum bid / reserve could be “at least one pin off my wants list”. However, even these minimums do not seem to be allowed under the current rules.

In agree that reserve that states “unless I get a pin a like” is not quantifiable and that should not be allowed because it interpretation.

Finally, the rules need to be confirmed that once a bid is placed, it is a “contract”. I.e., even if the bidder later regrets the bid, s/he is still bound by it. If he wishes to increase the offer, s/he be allowed to in a new “bid”.


kajtdd
 
Thanks for posting the rules! :) I can totally see the reason for not allowing reserves. The only reason I'd want to have one is that I think with all the "higher end" auctions, my piddly pins won't get enough traffic, but I guess that means they just aren't material for the auction house :lol: I really appreciate the new section tho, to keep everything organized around the site. Thanks so much staff team for your hard work in listening to everyone's suggestions!
 
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