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GUIDE Traders VS Keepers in your book

It seems a lot of people feel the same way I do about this subject. Many people who trade at the park will have their "Trading Book" out for everyone to view and then when you say you would like to trade for a certain pin, they say "Oh! I am not trading that pin" or "That's one of my keepers"

First lets talk "Keepers" I have a lanyard I wear when I trade that has what I refer to as my keepers, however, as I explained to my children, keeper is a relative term. Sure they are all really nice and hard to get pins but if someone had a pin I really wanted, I would certainly trade it, especially if it was like some people say, their HOLY GRAIL.

As for my trading books, That's what they are, trading books. Everything in them is for trade. Sure, I want it to be a fair trade and may not accept a certain offer but they are all for trade. Do some people just need to show off their NON tradeable pins? Personally, my TRUE KEEPERS are at home on my boards.

I guess some people need to show off their cool pins but when you specifically ask them "Are these your traders" and they say yes, and then you go through their entire book and pick a pin but it just happens to be a pin they don't want to trade. But they did say they were all traders.

I may be venting here and everyone is entitled to trade pins the way they want. Certainly there are certain pins I am hoping to trade for but when people want to trade with me, I always try to trade with them. If they don't have a pin I need, I try to get a pin that has a good trading value or at least trade up.

I mean, if these are the pins you are trading, what real difference does it make if you don't get a particular pin you need but get a pin that has a far better trading value than the one you traded.

An example is, when I trade for my kids to get a certain pin, I will trade crazy, meaning I will give way more value for the pin I am trading because I want to make my kids happy and surprise them with a pin they want. There was someone at the park who had their trade book out and the pin had approx. a $40.00 value as far as trade goes.
I offered over $100.00 in pins and they still would not accept. OK, maybe they are the ones really losing out but even if it was a rack pin but my kids want it, I will trade whatever I need to in order to get it. I do know the value of pins but if you have kids, maybe you can relate to what I mean by overtrading for them.

I just wish that people were more flexible. I have seen far too many people at the park where when someone looks at their pins, the first thing they say is you don't have anything I need, but you can buy me this pin inside. And usually it is not a fair trade for the person trading and it ruins it for other fair traders. Have any of you had this experience. What do you think?

For those of you who know me, I am the easiest person to trade with. Remember, Its called PIN TRADING and too many people get hung up on certain pins. I enjoy helping people complete set and when someone really wants a pin, I try to make it happen for them. I am honest with people and even if they dont have a pin I feel is a fair trade but know they really want the pin, I will tell them that maybe if they gave me 2 particular pins for the one they want, and I will even tell them I am making out more on the deal but if you really want it, I'll trade and then it is up to them.

I mean seriously, even if I did not have a PIN YOU NEEDED but was willing to trade 2 DSF pins for a BLUE DLR LE ($9.95), so that 2 LE300 DSF pins for 1 DLR LE1000 pin, would you trade? (And they are desirable pins like Jack, Stitch, Alice, etc...) Maybe I am crazy and just don't know it but if I was willing to give you a one hundred dollar bill for a fifty, would you not take it?

Leave your NON tradeable pins at home and if you have a trade book, trade them. Its one thing not to accept an offer but to not even be willing to trade it and say its not for trade, why is it in your book!?

Thoughts......................

PS and if you do know me, you know I am never at a loss for words....lol
If you dont, NOW YOU KNOW!
 
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I do not agree with some of the things stated in this article. First of all... some people only have ONE book for everything. The book does contain their traders but also has their keepers in it. When I find this I ask them to tell me what is for trade so I do not ask for a pin that they want to keep. After all... they are their pins! Many children and early traders have their books like that.

Some feel that all their pins are for trade if the right pin comes along but if not then they just say they are not for trade. There is nothing wrong with that either. If I brought my Hitch hiking ghost Cast pin (7882) and someone offered me the Master Gracey lenticular (15343) that has been my grail forever ... I would trade, but for the most part my HHG pin is not for trade.

Secondly, you might offer me $100 worth of pins that you just purchased at DS on sale for $3 and $4 each and now you want me to take the pins you offer off your hands (because they do not trade very well) and give you my pin worth $50 that EVERYONE wants. I am sorry but I would not make that trade either. THE VALUE OF ANY PIN BELONGS TO THE OWNER OF THE PIN. In trading you trade your pin for equal value to you or close to it IN YOUR OPINION. Sure you will give up more to get something you really want IF you have something the other person will accept but just because you hand me a bunch of pins from your trading book does not mean that I am willing to give up my pin that I have ear marked in my mind to trade for one of my grail pins. I normally try to help others get the pins they are looking for but I will not take just anything they offer (well sometimes I do but for the sake of this discussion I don't, LOL).

Third, I have asked if a person is willing to buy a pin but it is something of equal value in my eyes. I watch people send others in the stores too but it is the ones that send people in the store to buy them a Haunted Mansion LE for a GWP haunted mansion pin that they have literally 50+ of that burns me up. An LE... really??? We have all asked people if they are willing to buy something in the store when they simply didn't have anything you could use. I have and I have seen you do it too Dan. There is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone is out to take someone when they ask if you are willing to buy them a pin. You just have to use your best judgment.

OK getting off my soapbox now.... LOL
 
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Maybe I should have clarified a little more. I will ask the person before hand if these are their traders and they answer YES. Then they say no when I choose a pin. I agree that a keeper is a relative term. I was just discussing this today. My Lanyard is my keepers but again, as mentioned, if someone comes to me with one of my Grail pins, it is now a trader.

I also agree that many people, including my kids, have a page of keepers in their book, but when someone ask, or even if they dont, when they start to look, they will tell them the pins on the last page are NOT for trade. Its just a bummer when you ask, they say they are all traders and then when you choose a pin or two, they say, "OH, thise pins are not for trade"

And while I do send many people in to buy a pin for a pin I may have because they just dont have anything I need, I dont do that for a PWP pin. 2 maybe but not one. I can always find something for one pin but when you consider the average pin has a value of 4 - 5 dollars, 2 of them is worth trading for a Blue ($9.95) pin and of course the person who wants them must be ok with it otherwise they would pass on the offer.

And in most cases, I am one of the easiest people to trade with and try hard to trade with people. Its when THEY have a GWP pin for my LE1000 pin that I send them in the store, and again, nothing wrong with that.
 
I was not trying to imply that you sent people in for a pin who wanted a PWP pin but I have seen it at DLR. I have also seen someone put out a bunch of pins on a table and have anyone that wanted one of them buy him the latest LE's that came out. I heard him tell someone once that he had gotten about 70 of the same pin in just one day doing that. To me it just isn't right and these traders make the rest of us look bad. I just didn't want new traders to think that asking if they wanted to buy a pin in order to get a pin was necessarily a bad thing. There are some bad traders out there that try to take advantage and there are many out there that do not know any better. That is the sad part. I once had a lady turn to her husband because I did not want to trade my LE for the Hidden Mickey they offered and say... "she just doesn't want to trade with us." That is not the case. The LE was not a great pin but I just do not make a practice of trading LE pins for Hidden Mickey pins. I offered to trade it for a star wars open edition pin and was told.... OH NO, we aren't going to trade that one for your pin! They were collecting Star Wars pins and even though the LE was also a Star Wars pin they put more value on the one they had, which was fine and why I say the value of a pin is with the owner of that pin.

Just because you see a pin sell on the bay for $40 today does not make it a $40 pin. So Many people will say ... this pin is worth $40 because I saw it sell on Ebay for that. I have had to sell many of my pins at different stages of my pin trading to pay bills and remember having two people fight over the collection I was offering. These pins were selling at upwards of $100 each but were not worth that, I just got lucky that two people decided to fight for my pins. One can not necessarily put a figure on the value of a pin unless it consistently sells for that amount over time. Then and only then would I concede that as a true value. Every trader is different, every person trades differently, there is no right or wrong. There is a proper etiquette to trading but value is subjective to the owner of the pin. You can value a pin at $25 because that is what you paid or whatever. You may think that same pin is worth $40 because you saw it sell on Ebay for that but if the owner saw it sell for $60 he may think it is worth that. In the case you mentioned where you offered $100 worth of pins maybe just maybe that person sees that pin as being worth $120 due to a bidding war they saw on the bay where someone decided the pin was worth that to them at that time. I think the value of a pin is this..... The value of the pin is in the eyes of the person who has that pin because you are going to have to please them to get it... simple as that. To me "value" is purely subjective.
 
I wanted to add something to the "value" of a pin. I tend to try to trade to close to same edition size and wants ratio on PinPics or offer more than one pin in trade. I must say however that I have seen pins that had a low, even upside down, wants ratio sell for big bucks on the Bay. I do not study the Bay per say but which is the better indicator? I feel it only validates that "value" is subjective.

Another example is this... Lets say you have a GREAT Ursula pin but no one around you collects Ursula. That Pin at least on that day was pretty much worthless. Now you have a mediocre Ursula pin and the room is full of Ariel seekers... all of a sudden there is a ton of interest in this Ursula pin and it trades like it was a grail. Things are just so subjective. I have noticed that when people are trading pins of the character they collect they put a higher value on the pin than I would. To them it has more value because that is what they like.

I kind of went off subject but want to say I am grateful for trading and whenever I can get a pin for my collection. When I trade at Disneyland I will go all day trading like a wild woman and never trade for a single pin for my own personal collection. We can trade over 100 pins a day when we are at the park. I just get a real kick out of helping others get the pins they are looking for. I try really hard to trade for what they have available but do sometimes have to ask the person if they are willing to buy a pin. I also will use an any pin board for my lanyard fodder. I figure if I had the pins to put on Cast Member lanyards it really doesn't matter what pins I have to put there and every once in a while have actually gotten pins I want. The bad part is I do get broken and/or "bad" pins which I usually take off the board as soon as I notice them. I do not take the time to go through the pins at the park but when I get back to our hotel I go through them and figure out how many scrapper/counterfeit/bad pins I ended up with. Some slip by but no one is perfect. I have given broken/bad pins to people for scrap booking or made refrigerator magnets out of them. They work great for either and it is a way to use what you get. Pin trading just makes you feel good and that along with the people and friendships you make are the biggest reason we do it.
 
This is more on the original topic... but I was wondering what most traders do with their lanyards? Do most people have traders on their lanyards or keepers? Just trying to get an idea.....
 
It depends on the trader. This is how I usually see it.
Taders who are local to the park and come out to trade with tourist and visitors of the park usually are showing off their really nice pins and most of the time they are keepers (a relative term to be discussed)

Tourist and regular guest in the park tend to have mostly traders on their lanyards, but again, as they trade, they start to get some keepers.
When they look in my book and I ask what they have to trade, they are usually pretty good about saying everything onmy lanyard except.......

Now the term keeper I mentioned is a relative term. Sure they are keepers but if someone offered you a crazy hard to get pin worth 5 times the value of you keeper, I'll bet its not a keeper anymore!
 
I do not wear keeper pins to the park. Even on a lanyard and wrapped in plastic as I have seen many do you risk damaging and or losing the pin and to me it is just not worth it. Usually I have my lanyard fodder in a bag. Sometimes I will put on a pin I have traded for that day but gauranteed it is not a pin of any real value. Those get tucked away as soon as I get them never to see daylight again... LOL. I would only wear traders on my lanyard but that is me. Lots of people wear their keepers on their lanyard... we call them their bragging lanyards... LOL. Truthfully I have been quite envious at some of the lanyards I have seen at the park. I have also seen people deck their lanyards out in the holiday of that time. For example right now you might see people wearing Halloween lanyards... I think that is really cool but I collect Halloween pins so it would not be an option for me to do as I would die if I lost or damaged them!
 
Ive never been to a park (well January will change that lol) but I will only be having my Trader pins on my lanyard as well as in my only pin bag as I wouldnt put my keeper pins on there as I wouldnt want anyone to get funny with me by saying thats a keeper.

As the way I see it, the Lanyard is for having your trader pins on for people to see and keepers should be kept off it as you can get someones hopes up for them to be turned down.
 
I have extra secure locking backs on my keeper lanyard. I wear it to the park, but only when I don't plan to ride anything that might cause them to get damaged. I also have my trader lanyard that I wear all the time. I also carry give away pins in my pockets and backpack. These are for kids who have a lanyard, are maybe wearing a BD badge or a first time visitor. They seem to enjoy looking at my keeper lanyard and then I give them a pin to get started on trading. Also carry extra lanyards for the same reason. I love pin trading and I like paying it forward. If I help someone, then someone will someday help me. Just my thoughts.
 
Sounds like I'll just put my regular traders on a lanyard and then put LE's, etc in my bag. My bag does have a see-thru pocket on the front shaped like a mickey icon that I have some of my fav keepers... That shouldn't be an issue, should it?
 
When at the parks, My lanyard is a mix of traders and "keepers" . The keeper pins are usually doubles, and/or easy to trade for pins that say a little about me or pins I have traded for that day. The traders are just that, traders. I pretty much only trade with CMs at the parks. That doesn't mean if I were approached, I would not trade. However, I do not search out people to trade with, because I know I have only brought "lanyard fodder" and I wouldn't get the time of day anyway. I'll bring better traders to local meets, but mostly good trades are either by mail or pre-arranged. I enjoy the chase, and the interaction with the CMs when on vacation, so I keep it light and keep it fun, and keep the trading with the people who can't say no.
 
I wear a pin vest. My pins on the vest are not for trade. I wear a hip lanyard and carry a bag with traders in it. On the very last page of my trade bag, I have a set of pins that I am working to complete. I make that known up front because I have traded for so many duplicates it isn't funny!

I will also trade for a pin I don't necesarilly want if I feel it is an equal trader just to help someone out. I will try to make a trade happen if at all possible. Sometimes it just doesn't work. Sometimes I come out losing a little and sometimes the other person loses a little. During Trade City, I found a World of Color Cheshire pin that I really wanted and I had a pin of a little less value that he wanted. He said, eh, I really want this pin and if it's okay with you, it's okay with me. And we traded. We both left happy and I am sure we will both be on the other end of that trade one day in our trade time!
 
I think this subject is very subjective. I've run across many many traders that say "these are all for trade" but if I don't have what they want they change their minds. Or they say "well I think I'll keep this one, I have a friend interested in it and I may give it to them" or they say "oh sorry, I didn't realize that was there" and take it out. It's fine, pins are the property of the person who has them, if that person changes their mind that's their choice to do, I may not like it but there's nothing I can do about it. :) I have 3 lanyards, 1 is all Pirates, nothing is for trade on that one, I do wear it in the parks sometimes but not often, 1 is purple and has half traders and half keepers, a couple of the keepers are scrappers (for instance DBF has the Donald that says "bad boy" and I have the Daisy that says "good girl"), we know they are scrappers but we like them so we wear them. If someone asks I say they aren't for trade because they are scrappers, I have a Cheshire Cat that I adore, not for trade, I have a Sally that everyone wants, DBF has the Jack, they aren't for trade. When someone asks we simply say "the ones above here are for trade" while holding our hands over the bottom half which is where the keepers are. I like to share my interests thru my pins, this allows me to do that. I also have a pink lanyard that is all traders, except the scrapper at the bottom. DBF has 2 lanyards, a black one that is all glow in the dark pins, he wears it because he likes to see it glow on the dark rides, his blue one has both keepers and traders on it. However as Dan said, if someone had one of our Grail pins we would happily trade for almost any pin on our lanyards, DBF has in fact done that. Someone really wanted his Mickey Oakland A's pin, DBF traded it because that person had a pin he wanted and was willing to trade it, then DBF went to the pin store and replaced the A's pin. :) And yes, he did tell the guy who wanted it he could go buy it but the guy really wanted to trade for it. We try to trade equal for equal, for instance HM for HM or LE1000 for LE1000. Sometimes someone just has nothing you want for trade, in that instance (imo) it's OK to ask them to buy you something, we always tell people to follow their gut, if it doesn't feel right don't do the trade. We have asked people to buy pins for us but only a few times, we are almost always able to find something they have that we are willing to take, I've been asked to buy pins more times then I can count, I've done it a few times but if it feels wrong I say thanks and walk away. This is what we tell new traders that we meet at the parks, follow your gut, it will rarely lead you wrong. As for pin trading books, DD14 has a book she carries, DD10 carries her pins in her backpack (we keep our extra traders in plastic bags in our backpack/sling bags), I carry mine in my backpack and DBF carries a big pin book. That pin book has almost all traders but when we find pins we want to keep we put them in the pin bag for safe keeping, also if we are trying to finish a set we keep those in the pin bag as well, that way we know what we are missing. We keep the back 2 or 3 pages free for our keepers and this seems to work out very well for us. :) That said everyone will have their own system that works for them, I don't think the same deal works for everyone. :)

Oh and FTR, we try hard to help people complete collections and get pins they really want as well. Sometimes it's easier then other times and yes, we've had people say things like "oh they don't want what we have" and "don't try to trade with them, they are those professional traders and try to steal from you". Both statements are completely untrue of course, we are the exact opposite of that. :)
 
This subject makes me very frustrated. I have come across SO many people that bring their collections with them and don't tell anyone anything which makes it very frustrating to try and trade with them! I personally think you should keep your TRADING pins out so people can SEE. If you want to bring your collection, fine, but make it clear about what it is and don't just leave it on the table!

It's just frustrating for the other trader trying to trade for a pin you have when you know full well that it's part of your collection.
 
Let me clarify my example.
I have no problem keeping traders and keepers in the same book or on your lanyard. When asked are these all traders, you can say yes or all but these.

My example is not that they do not find anything you have they want, it happens prior to that. I see a Pin and say I like this one will you lok at my traders and before even looking, they say, "sorry, that is not for trade". So its not about the not finding something they want, they have not even looked and said it was not for trade as soon as I asked.

I spend a lot of time looking in teir book to ind the one pin I happen to want is not for trade after they said they were all traders.

Thats Frustrating. I also understand the other side where they say they are all for trade but dont find anything you have, that is a completly different story.
 
I have a basic rule of thumb regarding my trader pins: If its in my book on the table, its tradable. My keepers I keep out of sight. Regarding other traders: Ask. If they say no, smile, say thank you and move on to the next trader. Pin trading is about the thrill and fun of the hunt - and -making friends. Dang! Did those rose-colored-glasses pop onto my face again. LOL!!
 
I think sometimes when people say "oh no, that is a keeper" that is just their way of saying they don't want to trade it for anything you have. I always feel bad looking through someone's book and having to tell them "sorry, but I don't see anything that I need." Maybe some people find it easier to say that they decided not to trade it rather than be completely honest. Especially because if someone walked in with their Grail pin I bet that pin they were "keeping" would move to a trader real quick....

I think there are keepers, traders, and grey area pins. The grey area pins may be keepers......or traders for the right pin. Those are the types of pins you want in person just in case someone has something you really want. In that respect, online trading has a perk. I can look at someone's wants and I may have a pin not on my traders list I can offer up if I want what they have bad enough. But when Trading in person, if you don't at least bring the pins along there isn't much you can do.

I think the best thing is to group your pins together in your book. However you want to do it, but for example, group all the $5 pins together, all the $10 ones together, all the grail traders together, all the keepers unless it is for something special pins together, and so on. Then, if you are interested in someone's pin you can easily say "anything on this page" or "any two of these or one of these" etc.
 
I think some people have missed what I mentioned.
They say they are all traders, I find a pin and before they even look at any of my traders, they then say, "Oh, I am not trading that one".

I understand after the fact that they have looked but this is before even looking. You spend 5 minutes in their books and finally make a decision and that happens to be the one pin thay are not trading. They never looked at my traders to even see what I may have.

Thats what I mean. I totally understand the after the fact that they cant find a pin.
 
When I go to WDW or on a cruise, I have four 3 ring binders (so I can remove pages if I desire) that I take with me. I also wear a lanyard. Two of the portfolios are of keepers. In the front of both of them is a page in a sheet protector that states "These pins are for exhibition only. They are not for trade."

The other two portfolios are stuffed full of traders, quite a few of which are duplicate pins of the keepers in the other two keeper portfolios. The pins I wear on my lanyard are all up for trade. I find that keeping the pins that are available in separate portfolios does the trick. However, the reason I show the keepers is so that newbies can see how pin trading has progressed over the years and see pins that have long been retired. I began collecting in 1996. I have many keeper pins that are just about impossible to find these days and have been for years.

Since my portfolios hold about 150-200 pins apiece, I take about 1000 pins with me on each trip. I usually spend one or two evenings dedicated to trading, usually setting myself up in my resort lobby or at the Epcot tables. On a cruise, I participate in the pin trading hour in the ship's atrium. Or I would go Pin Traders at DownTown Disney and wear 2 or 3 lanyards. I would trade up a storm.

For me, pin trading is the thrill of the hunt. It took me 3 years to find the 2001 Haunted Mansion trash can pin. It took me 7 years to find a long-retired LE 100 Eiilott pin. If I have a complete series, I'm reluctant to break it up. I hope, that on my upcoming cruise, that I will be able to find the elusive Paradise Pier trash can pins. I hope...

Laura
 
This is how i do it , everything in my book is for trade le , da , rack , and hm , now I do were a lanyard and everything on it is from my collection but if something comes along that I want and the person doesnt see anything in my book , depending on how much I want it , I am willing to trade off my lanyard . So basically bag is "trades" lanyard is "keepers" but everything is for trade if the right thing comes along.
 
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I have some "keepers" in my book and I will keep it in my book till I found one that I thought was worthy enough to be trading for. Like my two Beauty and the Beast DVD release pin (recent one and also the one from a few years ago.) I won't trade them till I actually get something that I would consider good enough. Also a little girl wanted my Tinkerbell lollipop pin (which would have broken up the set) and she wanted to trade a common pin for it. I told her that I only trade set for set. I do want to get a good pin set that would be equal to that set. She looked annoyed that I said no to her. When people look at me with annoyed expressions just because I didn't trade with them for a pin that they wanted of mine. I am usually picky about what pins I will trade and I am not afraid to say no to someone if they want to trade a common pin for a LE or a better pin of mine. I usually say that I will trade a pin from the store that would be valued to one of mine. Or I will say that they can get two pins that would total the amount of one mine also. And that it is usually up to that person if they want to buy and trade 1 or 2 pins for one of mine or if they just don't want to trade at all.

So in the end mine are usually trade-able in the book I'm just asking for more on some of them. The ones that I don't want to get rid of I will either show on my lanyard or I just keep them at home. I have some that are at home that won't see the light of day at the parks or ever leave my room.
 
iamdisneydan said:
I think some people have missed what I mentioned.
They say they are all traders, I find a pin and before they even look at any of my traders, they then say, "Oh, I am not trading that one".

I understand after the fact that they have looked but this is before even looking. You spend 5 minutes in their books and finally make a decision and that happens to be the one pin thay are not trading. They never looked at my traders to even see what I may have.

Thats what I mean. I totally understand the after the fact that they cant find a pin.
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For me if the person only has a lanyard I always check out their pins and they don't even notice that I am looking at them just so I have an idea of what they have before they even touch my book. I have trained myself to be that good because with ASL you have to be good at that. Now if it is a book then I will actually look at their book and then decide if any of their pins are good enough for mine.
 
My real keepers are at home. I do carry and trade some keepers depending on what someone might be offering.

I do keep a kids lanyard with me at all times. It's full of babies, easy to find pins, etc. Stuff that would appeal to young traders and something they can go through and trade me ANY pin for. I really don't worry about what I get in trade on that lanyard but I have had adults trade off of it for something better than they had and then try to trade me my own pin back. That's happened more than once.
 
My keepers never leave the house. Simple as that.

The majority of the pins on my Trades list are on my Owns list as well, but that's because I like them all enough to have them on display. When it comes to taking them to pin meets, they are all for trade, but I might be reluctant to part with the ones that I like a lot.

For example, I have Pin 49034: DLRP - Jessica Rabbit - Mystery Release on my Trades list and my Owns list. I totally LOVE this pin, but because I'm not a Jessica collector, it's on my Trades list. I'd be willing to trade this pin, but only for something on my Wants list that I like MORE than this one. Just because someone is offering something that I want for a pin that I don't even collect, doesn't mean that I'll easily part with it. I'm a huge Disney fan, so it's only natural that I'd like pretty much all the pins that I own, even the ones that I don't collect.
 
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