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Clarification on UNDERAGE Traders and in Chat

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Good!!! I love pin trading, I first started when I was 16 and had no problems with trades! And tbh there's at least 15 people on here that would would say "Yeah he can be trusted to do a good trade/sale" I just hope people at my age don't get hasseled because 1 person gets a bad trade!
 
MY point isnt wouldnt you rather be safe than sorry? And to be safe you should at least know who your trading with. As for the other threads being closed TheJesseta and I spoke about that and I was told to POST AGAIN as I bring up legitimate concerns. I am not saying there is porn on DPF read the original post. Im saying the legal ramification are there. And yes the FBI has entire offices dedicated to investigating internet complaints with minors. And Erik this is not about any certain person AGAIN read the first post.
 
This is a SMALL example of what can happen you see when kids register on here there info is put into the database and No Sony didnt have porn either
United States v. Sony BMG Music Entertainment

<27>The FTC’s most recent enforcement action was conducted against Sony BMG Music Entertainment (“Sony”) under charges that Sony had violated COPPA and 15 U.S.C. § 45.58 According to the FTC complaints, users were required to submit a broad range of personal information, including date of birth, in order to register on the websites that Sony operated for its artists and labels. On 196 of these sites, Sony collected personal information from thousands of underage fans without first obtaining their parents’ consent.59 Many of these sites also enabled children to engage in private messaging, which allowed them to interact with others, including adults.
<28>The FTC alleged that Sony violated COPPA by failing to provide sufficient notice of the type of information the company collects from children, how it uses this information, and what information it shares with others. Sony also allegedly failed to provide parents with notices of its information practices, to obtain their verifiable consent, and to provide them with means to review the personal information collected from their children or to refuse to permit further use or maintenance of this information.60 Additionally, the FTC charged Sony with violating 15 U.S.C. § 45 by falsely stating in its privacy policy that users who indicate that they are under thirteen will be restricted from participating in Sony activities.61 Actually, Sony accepted registrations from users who entered a date of birth indicating that they were under thirteen, and allowed them to use the site.62
<29>The December 2008 Consent Decree calls for Sony to pay a $1 million fine, and to delete all personal information collected and maintained in violation of the law since April 21, 2000.63 The Consent Decree also has a significant education component in addition to numerous reporting and recording keeping requirements.64 Sony must educate children who use its sites and their parents, about children’s privacy in general, and social networking in particular.65 For five years from the date of entry of the Consent Decree, the company must place clear and conspicuous notices throughout its sites to invite parents and children to visit the FTC materials related to children’s privacy and social networking.66 There are additional compliance, reporting, and record keeping provisions. For example, for three years from the date of the consent decree, Sony must maintain and make available to the FTC, all documents demonstrating compliance with the Consent Decree.67 Moreover, each document must be retained for at least two years after its creation.68
State Action Under COPPA
 
AND AGAIN I am not saying banning underage traders is the answer if you READ the post I have said it repeatedly. HOWEVER there are what almost a1000 members on here now I have been here since the beginning and i dont even know half of them. The answer to this is not a simple one the info was to make people AWARE even I tend to forget when I am on here that I may be dealing with a child whose parents do not know or approve of them being here.
 
Tabbikat2219 said:
This is a SMALL example of what can happen you see when kids register on here there info is put into the database and No Sony didnt have porn either
United States v. Sony BMG Music Entertainment

<27>The FTC’s most recent enforcement action was conducted against Sony BMG Music Entertainment (“Sony”) under charges that Sony had violated COPPA and 15 U.S.C. § 45.58 According to the FTC complaints, users were required to submit a broad range of personal information, including date of birth, in order to register on the websites that Sony operated for its artists and labels. On 196 of these sites, Sony collected personal information from thousands of underage fans without first obtaining their parents’ consent.59 Many of these sites also enabled children to engage in private messaging, which allowed them to interact with others, including adults.
<28>The FTC alleged that Sony violated COPPA by failing to provide sufficient notice of the type of information the company collects from children, how it uses this information, and what information it shares with others. Sony also allegedly failed to provide parents with notices of its information practices, to obtain their verifiable consent, and to provide them with means to review the personal information collected from their children or to refuse to permit further use or maintenance of this information.60 Additionally, the FTC charged Sony with violating 15 U.S.C. § 45 by falsely stating in its privacy policy that users who indicate that they are under thirteen will be restricted from participating in Sony activities.61 Actually, Sony accepted registrations from users who entered a date of birth indicating that they were under thirteen, and allowed them to use the site.62
<29>The December 2008 Consent Decree calls for Sony to pay a $1 million fine, and to delete all personal information collected and maintained in violation of the law since April 21, 2000.63 The Consent Decree also has a significant education component in addition to numerous reporting and recording keeping requirements.64 Sony must educate children who use its sites and their parents, about children’s privacy in general, and social networking in particular.65 For five years from the date of entry of the Consent Decree, the company must place clear and conspicuous notices throughout its sites to invite parents and children to visit the FTC materials related to children’s privacy and social networking.66 There are additional compliance, reporting, and record keeping provisions. For example, for three years from the date of the consent decree, Sony must maintain and make available to the FTC, all documents demonstrating compliance with the Consent Decree.67 Moreover, each document must be retained for at least two years after its creation.68
State Action Under COPPA
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Thats some pretty strong information and I think should not be taken lightly. Maybe DPF needs to protect themselves and add a disclaimer or whatever needed. Facts are facts and ignorance is not excuse of the law. Just because YOU dont know its illegal does not mean you wont get in trouble for it. There are lots of people in jail right now saying they did not know it was illegal.......
 
Ok! I see both sides of this "discussion". I believe that both Pinpics and DPF have tried to address the above stated concerns.

Example 1.)
From DPF FAQ:

How do I register?
You register by clicking on the 'Register' link near the top of the page. You will be asked to choose a user name, password and enter a valid email address. In addition there will be some other fields to which you will be invited to respond. Some will be mandatory while others are optional. Once this is complete you will either be fully registered, or in some cases you may have to click on a link in an 'activation email' sent to your email address. Once you have done this you will be registered.
Note that entering your email address will not leave you open to 'spam', as you can choose to hide it from other board users. You'll probably be able to allow other registered users to contact you via email, but the system won't display your email address to them unless you give permission.
If you are under the age of 13, the administrator may require that a parent or guardian provide consent before allowing you to complete the registration process. More information about this is available during the registration process.

Example 2.)
From Pin Pics Terms of Use:

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]By creating a user name on Pin Pics, you agree to the following Terms of Use (TOU):[/FONT]
  1. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Any pin trader under the age of 18 should have the consent of a responsible adult. The responsible adult will be held responsible for the minor should any loss or damaged properties due to the trade occur. Any complaints or fraud charges filed will be with the minor as well as the responsible adult.[/FONT]
As pointed out earlier, a child can easily lie about their age, even if we ask them up front during chats, emails, etc. And dishonest traders are all ages. Tabbi also has a valid concern about potential overzealous parents - who should ALWAYS be monitoring their childrens online activities IN THE FIRST PLACE. But, our younger traders do not normally act badly or in poor taste. When I have a party that's rude or dishonest, they are shut down, reported, then ignored - I don't care how old they are. If they are here, they should be old enough to know how to conduct themselves.

When all is said and DONE, please try to remember - as a whole we are a good group of people and we do care about each other. I look forward to us laughing with each other again.
 
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Thats all I was trying to point out currently DPF has a 13 an above policy but that may not keep them out of trouble. And I agree for the most part our young traders on here are wonderful. I just think we should all be aware that when in chat and instant messaging on here you MAY be speaking to a child. I would rather err on the side of caution that regret it later. This all started when a few underage people were in chat. It got me thinking if these were my children would I want them involved in this kind of chat? So I went to another department of my office and inquired as to the laws. I found any chat with a minor is risky at best especially if the site has no disclaimers or rules on minors in chat. Then you take into account most of us here give out our addresses. Add minors to the mix and maybe parents who are not aware of their childs trading now the parents are upset as you now have their childs name and address. A harmless "Hey lets meet up and trade pins" can become a nightmare. And my point is law enforcement will arrest and ask questions later. Now you have to prove your intentions. All of this could have been avoided had you known you were talking to a minor. There are various good and decent software age verifications programs out there. It is just something to think about.
 
Tabbikat2219 said:
........currently DPF has a 13 an above policy but that may not keep them out of trouble. .................any chat with a minor is risky at best especially if the site has no disclaimers or rules on minors in chat. .................. is law enforcement will arrest and ask questions later. Now you have to prove your intentions..
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That appears to be a valid point. Perhaps the administrators can review their site policies and confirm with someone they trust if said policies should be discreetly updated. Thank you for agreeing that most of our kids here are "wonderful" kids. :)
 
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Just thought I'd toss in my two cents into this conversation. I don't think I've ever known the age of someone I am trading with. There's always the possibility that you're trading with a minor, and that their parents may or may not approve of it, but I'm not sure how one would prevent this from happening. The disclaimer on DPF (If you are under the age of 13, the administrator may require that a parent or guardian provide consent before allowing you to complete the registration process. More information about this is available during the registration process.) makes sense, and is something I've seen on a lot of other sites. But you need to remember that kids find a way around these things, and some slip into the cracks (I know at that age I did the same thing...hehehe). Trading is different from most online communities, whereas in other forums, you usually don't give each other your address. Maybe a good rule for us to follow is to ask to make sure they are of "legal age" (I don't know how else to put that) to be giving out that information? I'm really not sure how one can fully protect themselves from this kind of thing. As for the chat room, maybe we should just be careful with what things are said there. Kind of follow Thumper's Dad's rule; if you don't have anything nice (or appropriate) to say, then don't say it at all. I mean, if you really have the urge to say "#%#$ !$% $%@#$!@", you can privately message someone there. But again, sites like omegle and chatroulette have this sort of issue as well, where yes, they say you need to be of a certain age to go on it, but c'mon, I'd say the majority of people there are under 16. I think the best way to keep ourselves out of trouble is to not try to put any harsh regulations up (other than the ones we have, because we do need something!) but for each of us to think about what we say in the chat before we say it, and that when we are pin trading, we are giving up private information to one another. Remember that, a total stranger knows where you live! If you're under 18, think about that, and even if you're 18+, still think about it. Remember that this is Disney, and this is a pin trading site, therefore, there's really no need for adult conversations (of course, I'm in no way comparing this place to a porn site). People, just PLEASE be mindful of what you say to others and how you interact with each other. I'm a part of DPF because I wanted to be part of a community that shares common interests with me and I'm sure thats the same reason others are here for as well. And looking over this discussion, it looks like we've lost sight of the fact that Disney Pin Trading is supposed to be fun.

So, who wants to trade?
 
I agree kids will get around the rules however if they state they are 18 then DPF and you are not liable at that point. And yes people should watch what they say in chat sadly some don't. I would just feel better if hey are under 18 I knew about it. I make my choice who to trade with based on references and so on. Im not saying Bann the kids not at all. Just let us be aware of who they are. If your 16 there is nothing wrong with you being here and enjoying pin trading but for the adults it can be legal trouble. And regardless I do not want to see ANYONE on here get into trouble not the kids or the adults. But if I am in chat and there is lets say a 13 year old yes it might change some of the things i might say even in a joking manner. For EXAMPLE in chat someone from the u.k said I need a *** (meaning a cigarette) lets just say the response from another person was NOT something appropriate for minors. And yes there was a minor in the room. I just think we should all be careful with what we say and how it could be perceived by a childs parent. I would never walk up to a child in a park and start up a conversation without asking the parents permission. I even ask when I just want to be nice and give the child a pin. Maybe DPF should consult with an attorney in the state they are located in and find out where the sites legal responsibilities are? Most sites have a disclaimer saying you must be 18. And that is for legal reasons it protects everyone. Some sites go as far as requiring you to be 18 to enter chat or hold special rooms for people under 18. There are many ways to address this issue. I just know if it was my 14 year old child I would want to be aware of who they were chatting with and to whom they were giving out their addresses to.
 
Tabbikat2219 said:
I just know if it was my 14 year old child I would want to be aware of who they were chatting with and to whom they were giving out their addresses to.
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Not to be fanning the flames (I hope I used that saying correctly) but at that point, isn't it the responsibility of the parents and not that of the site?
 
I really truly hope it never becomes and issue on here but sadly at some point something will happen and ppl will say I didnt know a that is not a viable defense in court
 
are you just trying to bump your thread?

No one made any comments since you did 24 hours ago. I think the issue has been discussed enough, everyone will be more careful now, just let it go.
 
Excuse me I can post whenever I want to And guess what you do not get to decide when something is over. I will let it go when I am good an ready and not when you dictate for it to be so. If you have something to say to me then PM me this is not a topic I will ever let go. Its too important.
 
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Well since this is a discussion forum and not a soapbox forum, you need more than one person to have a discussion. Otherwise, you're just talking to yourself. Posts by only you for over a day is not a discussion, it's just you trying to get your opinion out again and again.
(I do realize, however, that you and I going back and forth does qualify as a discussion.)

I do think that you have some valid concerns, but I think the means you're going about it may not be the best. It seems to me (my opinion) that you are just trying to elicit a response from the forum and not going to stop until everyone says "Yes Tabbitha, we agree with you."

As for "This is too important," there are many things in life that are more important than pin trading and a forum. Be thankful you have your health, you can sit at a computer, and you can pin trade.
 
Im new to pin trading and this site but I have been reading this and I do know alot about this. I am a police officer and I am apart of the task force against internet crimes against children. Everything Tabbikat has said is 100% fact and accurate. Sites such as this one has to be even more careful as this is something that will attract kids its disney. If I receive one complaint from a parent on someone talking, meeting etc with a child I have to investigate it. which means you will be arrested and computer confiscated. Then you have to prove your innocence. I happen to agree with Tabbikat everyone needs to know about this. Why would anyone disagree about something like this? Its informative and factual. I dont think Tabbikat is on a soapbox but trying to be informative. How many of you actually know who your giving your address to? I have found in my 20 years of expierence people who speak the l;oudest against an issue like this are usually the ones who are doing this sort of thing or underage themselves. This is suppose to be a discussion but all I have seen is people attacking Tabbikat for something that is the law and obviously an issue here. I have read the TOS here and 13 is NOT an adult. If you have adults chatting with kids you are opening yourself to criminal charges and lawsuits. I think a discussion can only happen when the oppsoing parties have the facts and there are facts. I support you Tabbikat 110% as its my JOB. If anybody has a problem with it you can email me.
 
wdwjuan said:
Well since this is a discussion forum and not a soapbox forum, you need more than one person to have a discussion. Otherwise, you're just talking to yourself. Posts by only you for over a day is not a discussion, it's just you trying to get your opinion out again and again.
(I do realize, however, that you and I going back and forth does qualify as a discussion.)

I do think that you have some valid concerns, but I think the means you're going about it may not be the best. It seems to me (my opinion) that you are just trying to elicit a response from the forum and not going to stop until everyone says "Yes Tabbitha, we agree with you."

As for "This is too important," there are many things in life that are more important than pin trading and a forum. Be thankful you have your health, you can sit at a computer, and you can pin trade.
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Thank you. :)
 
this whole thing is ridiculous. i really have no other comment than that bc i really dont want to start more drama. but tabbitha, your points have been made (SEVERAL TIMES) we get what youre trying to say. so please, so our sake let it go. if you want dpf to do something, message the moderators. dont continue to "beat a dead house"
 
ohsnap19 said:
this whole thing is ridiculous. i really have no other comment than that bc i really dont want to start more drama. but tabbitha, your points have been made (SEVERAL TIMES) we get what youre trying to say. so please, so our sake let it go. if you want dpf to do something, message the moderators. dont continue to "beat a dead house"
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and thank you...again lol
 
ohsnap19 said:
this whole thing is ridiculous. i really have no other comment than that bc i really dont want to start more drama. but tabbitha, your points have been made (SEVERAL TIMES) we get what youre trying to say. so please, so our sake let it go. if you want dpf to do something, message the moderators. dont continue to "beat a dead house"
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Oops lol double post
 
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