My only concern with this would be if someone sold an altered pin, and labeled it as such, that does not prevent the buyer from then trying to pass it off as authentic. It would not be the original creator's fault for someone else's dishonesty, but I feel as if it could cause some potential problems! In my personal opinion, I think that this kind of thing would have to be for personal collections only.
Just playing Devil's advocate here - do you also believe that custom vinylmations and fantasy pins should be for personal collections only? If not, why?
"Value is in the eye of the beholder."
yup it sure is. And the majority of pin collectors will see the "value" of an altered pin the same way they see Fantasy, and damaged pins. authentic disney means not altered, not permanantly damaged and not fake/fantasy/counterfeit/scrap.
Not gonna discuss it further.My point is made, and your point is made.
There was a guy at the Mickey's Circus pin event who had taken the film cel out of a 101 Dalmatians PODM and replaced it with a battery operated micro video player. He then recorded a 10 minute loop from the film onto a micro SD card and had it playing throughout the event. It was really cool to see. Perhaps this is what that individual or some of the people who saw it are looking to do with these damaged cels.
I actually think the idea of putting in a different cell is actually pretty cool if it's for collection purposes only. Let's face it we all have a dream PODM and sometimes it's something that hasn't been made. All of my dream PODM cells were of things they unfortunately didn't make (except for Mulan). If someone try's to replace the cell and make a profit off of it is pretty shady.
So... I often see people asking for damaged or unwanted PODM pins... and I have to wonder... what are they doing with them? Are they "fixing" them by taking a cell and putting it in there? If so, doesn't that now make it a counterfeit?
In my mind, yes, it does. It's no longer an authentic pin since you changed what was in it. If you are keeping it with no intention on ever letting it out into the public, and have records of what you did so after your death it's not passed off as authentic, I guess that might be ok. But otherwise, I think it's kinda shady.
What are your thoughts on this fellow traders?
Ok - since this is somehow a topic and I'm a person looking for damaged ones I'll respond.
I want to do exactly what gbdb4ever described. That is why I only want damaged ones. I don't want to destroy a perfectly good pin. I happen to love these pins and would feel way too guilty tearing one apart if there was nothing wrong with it.
Ok...well, seeing that I'm doing this for myself, how the "majority of pin collectors" value it is meaningless to me. And if that is how it shakes out then there really isn't a threat of these invading the market, is there?
And just to remind everyone, I plan to put video behing the pin, not a different cel, so I'm pretty sure there is no threat of them being mistaken for the pin as sold by Disney.
Ok - since this is somehow a topic and I'm a person looking for damaged ones I'll respond.
I want to do exactly what gbdb4ever described. That is why I only want damaged ones. I don't want to destroy a perfectly good pin. I happen to love these pins and would feel way too guilty tearing one apart if there was nothing wrong with it.
I really find it comical that this is even being questioned considering that in the past people have flat out said "send me your scrappers for a good cause" and nooooobody questions that. Not at all saying that those people weren't doing what they said with them, but how about some consistency?
Seeing that the running theme here as of late has been "It is your pin, you can do whatever you want with it/charge whatever you want for it" I would think that same thinking would extend to this. I'm doing this for my own personal collection, but even if I wanted to sell it one day, whose business is it but mine? Does anybody honestly believe someone would try to pass off a video version as straight from Disney? Come on. IF it were sold (which again, is not why I'm doing this) it would be advertised for what it is. Look at it this way...if you drop a new transmission into you car, is your car now "counterfeit". No. And calling this counterfeiting is not true at all. I'm not replicating or reproducing anything. I'm simply repurposing.
And in the future, I'd kindly ask that if you have a question like this, ask the source. Publicly asking a group of people what someone else's intentions are isn't exactly appropriate because all you are going to get is speculation and start rumors.
So as long as no one's trying to pass it off as coming from Disney, then why not let collectors put their own creative spin on things, and share it with those interested?
So what if they do? They still aren't fake or counterfeit. Like others said, they are custom. Now, if someone misrepresents it, that's a different discussion.
Ok...well, seeing that I'm doing this for myself, how the "majority of pin collectors" value it is meaningless to me. And if that is how it shakes out then there really isn't a threat of these invading the market, is there?
And just to remind everyone, I plan to put video behing the pin, not a different cel, so I'm pretty sure there is no threat of them being mistaken for the pin as sold by Disney.
He never said he would pass it off as authentic, he said he would title them as customized. Which implies pretty obviously that it is an altered pin that someone could not get from disney.What worries me is that you don't see the problem with passing off an altered/custom as Disney authentic, or that seems to me to be what you are implying.
There is nothing wrong with altering them, but there is a LOT of area on the back to mark that it is custom as a metal etch. I have nothing against altering the pin. I have EVERYTHING against altering it then trying to pass it off as made by Disney.
I'm sorry but omg what a brilliant idea! For my personal collection I would happily buy a rubbish podm and change the scene. I would LOVE a bambi with thumper and miss bunny in it! Honestly why has no one thought of doing this before? And no I would not be selli it it would be for my personal collection, I love custom things and in the past I have seen people improve pins by using Swarovski crystals, again a frikken brilliant idea if the pin has lost a gem or if you think, yeah that could do with a gem there. Customising pins for your own personal use is just fun and makes your collection unique, if it's or your own personal gain I don't think anyone has the right to shout at you about it. Oh and I would totally pay someone to custom a podm for me if I didn't think I could do it myself.
I would love to see that moving movie one! I bet that is a gem of an idea. I love how creative the pin trading community is!
This WASN'T directed at you personally, I have seen quite a few and wondered about it. I've seen some SHADY people asking in the parks as well (you know, the same ones who manage to get 10 pins with one wristband... those people who badmouth those who want it for their collections saying that they don't know what to do with the pin, that they need to be selling them, not putting them in books or boxes...).
I've not seen the threads about scrappers, but I would question those as well. Scrappers could be used for fun things like the pin frames or the like. I'd always be worried the scrappers would come back into the parks.
I've never said "do/charge" whatever. I think there are common sense limits.
If you are buying them and putting in new frames and passing that off, well that IS counterfeiting. Comparing that to a car isn't the same thing. If you replace a transmission in a car, you pretty much have to tell the buyer you replaced it, and when and with what kind (rebuild, new, off market, etc). I'd think it was the same with these pins. If you try to pass it off as authentic, that is shady and wrong. It's NOT authentic and if you tried to actually pass it off as such, that WOULD make it a counterfeit. To so as such would really imply a lack of morals that is quite frankly mind boggling.
Now, as I said a few minutes ago before seeing your pretty defensive response, I FULLY endorse doing this for innovating things like the moving picture. That is a really neat idea. I am TOTALLY for that and would love to see that. Heck, if you do it, show it to Disney and tell them how. It's an amazing idea!
On another note, I do know some are collecting "bad" scenes for the comedy of it. I sometimes will trade for an odd pin just because it is quite frankly... well... odd. Unique. And if you could get a whole collection of PODM butts, now THAT would be incredibly funny.
Now, getting to the last sentence - Since this wasn't directed at you and was a broader question, I felt no need to ask you if I could post this question. Honestly, I didn't see WHO was asking for bad pins besides Milky.
Good grief.
For those who don't know me, I'm not as much deffensive as I am blunt and mildly annoyed.
The OP asked what people were doing with these pins. THAT was the topic. It then hypothosized that it was replacing the cell, which in my case was wrong, so I spoke up and thus far have been the only one looking for these to do so.
You have got to understand that people don't know what it is you do at the park everyday and what you see. So, to pose the question in an open forum where two people have threads looking for damaged or bad cells (one of which you commented on) the impression in the community is going to be that it is reference to the activity on the forum. Not everyone lives in CA...for many people the online bubble is the only source of information. So, it is easy to say after the fact 'don't take it personally, it isn't about you, I see rude people asking around in the park all the time' but the damage may have already been done in other people's minds.
I'm out. If you would like to continue debating the ramifications of something that to the best of our knowledge has not even happened yet, be my guest.
P.S. Psychopixie - that VW Bug in you sig is counterfeit!!!
Who are these shady people you speak because I've never seen these kind of people you just described at the park? You also totally contradicted what you said in this post, if Milky and Erudolf are the only people you see asking for crap PODM then obviously this thread had to have been directed toward one of them
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