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DSF Line UPDATE! 1/30/13

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DSF Line UPDATE! 1/30/13
bombardon3 said:
I don't want to start a huge legal debate on a pin forum so I just recommend that everyone go look up the definition of pattern of practice before believing that there is a law that says if a rule isn't enforced it goes away.
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Amen, Otherwise speeding tickets could not ever be enforced
 
I don't see why people think that this thread should be closed. It's an open debate, which hopefully can help find some resolution and improvements to how disney releases pins. As I've stated in previous posts, some change needs to occur for safety concerns. I agree with what Molly (and others) have said regarding these safety issues.
 
bombardon3 said:
I don't want to start a huge legal debate on a pin forum so I just recommend that everyone go look up the definition of pattern of practice before believing that there is a law that says if a rule isn't enforced it goes away.
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The internet is a wonderful tool, however reading more than the top google hits would serve you well. One more time nice an s.l.o.w. I only wish I could make you a little crayon diagram to make it even clearer.

Say that you pay your rent on the 11th every single month because you can only afford to pay then. Your manager says ok and waives the late fee, even though your lease "contract" says that you have until the 5th. You do this for say 6 months off and on, if now the landlord demands that a late fee be paid or attempts to evict you for late payment of rent, BECAUSE they have established a PATTERN and PRACTICE (been doing it) by accepting it late penalty free for X amount of time, therefore it has become an expected right to continue to do so.

This is ridiculous that this is the part of the comments that has bothered you so much. If you are still in doubt there is a good law school within driving distance go ask any first year what it means.
 
Molly said:
I think the correct line number to point out in the list of rules for this current topic of line saving is..

4. No "in and outs" of line, except for bathroom use.

However considering that rule #1 1. Pin Traders may begin to line up Friday at 11:00 PM. was of course broken by TWO NIGHTS it is clear that the so called "rules" are fluid at best and only come into play when it is beneficial to DSF and not the customer. I was horrified to see that people that showed up 2-5 minutes late were turned away, I honestly felt physically sick to see such a thing especially considering that the rest of the so called rules seem to be thrown out the door.

For those that were sent packing the legal jargon for this type of thing is called "pattern of practice" when someone person or business does something repeatedly the law says that there is a reasonable expectation that whatever the "something" is be it accepting your rent late repeatedly with no action, letting you park your car somewhere that it is not supposed to be, letting you loiter where it is not supposed to be allowed and in this instance a repeated and somewhat expected failure to enforce "the RULES" so it goes to reason that if you were allowed to break rules #1 and #4 that you should be able to break any and all of them! A dirty business that's for sure.

I have made it very clear in past posts that I object to small children "camping out in an alley" and was met with not only rude and defensive responses from of course those guilty of doing just that but also other members that either supported such rubbish or admitted to doing it themselves. I did not respond to the poster telling me that I should "mind my own business" and I basically just left this thread alone because arguing about something that should be a universally accepted standard of decency was a waste of my time when the opposition tries to justify doing such an unthinkable wrong. I also saw a post that said I did not care about the children and that I only wanted more pins for myself. Let me now do that, I do not live in Southern Ca, I would never under ANY circumstance sleep in an alley for a pin AND considering that from what several people in the know have told me about those pins that the children bought are sold on eBay or through the board so why would I care if an adult or child bought the pin if I was interested in purchasing it? I wouldn't care what the source was as long as I got what I wanted right? Well the truth is that I did not and will not want, purchase or trade for this release as I see them as black spot on collecting as a whole. A system set up for greed, bad citizenship and of course child abuse is not something I want to be party to.

It seems that people are failing to look at what "child exploitation" actually is. There are laws in this country to protect children from "working" and if your child was sleeping in an alley so you could sell the things that you forced them to buy because you want/need pins or money etc. you are guilty of child exploitation PERIOD. It is also quite a new concept where the people that are breaking not only the general decency principal but the actual law are the very ones touting the battle cry of "mind your own business" or "stop snitching" this is a cultural downfall in my opinion. Since when do the criminals get to dictate what acceptable behavior is? START SNITCHING, GET IN PEOPLES BUSINESS THAT DO NOT KNOW HOW TO BEHAVE, that should be your moral center and your basic duty.

If a parent, child, friend or complete stranger was murdered in the street would you scream "stop snitching" to the potential eye witnesses? Um no you would/should be begging for someone to tell you who did it. When I was growing up if you were a child misbehaving in town any adult that observed it would scold you and or spank you right there in public. You see people didn't "mind their business" they wanted a place to live where rotten children didn't grow up to be rotten adults and parents not only appreciated the assistance they expected it. In nearly every other country there is a sense of community a sense of what is good for my neighbor is good for all of us and where the term “ It takes a village” comes from as the “village” looks at all children as their own and behaves as such. We the people of this country have built walls and so called "boundaries" in which we are pushing our neighbors away. Yes things are different and people do not share the same beliefs on child rearing (spank don’t spank etc.) but the general idea that if someone does something wrong "WE" the people that know what they are doing can and should speak up and out about it.

If people spoke up and stopped minding their own business we would be in much better shape as a country, community etc. If criminals knew that no matter what if ANYONE saw them doing something that they would be called on it chances are they would be less likely to do it in the first place. In several other countries if someone is seen breaking a law, robbing a bank etc. the people will attack the criminal and some deliver capital punishment in the streets! That type of thing goes on because the community in general is not a bunch of crazy killers that like beating people in the streets, they want, expect and DEMAND a higher standard of behavior and as such they police themselves. We as a civilized society should not need the law, our neighbor or a total stranger to tell us how to behave or raise our children, unfortunately some people do need it. IF you fail to live up to what any "civilized" person would consider a basic standard of care for a child an onlooker should feel morally compelled to speak up for that child who can’t speak up for themselves. In other countries, many of which I was referring before, there are no laws to protect children but you know what they don't pimp their kids out to make ends meet. Yes several other countries have sweat shops where SOME people actually force their kids to work and the law could care less, well the United States of America is not one of them!

I will close with this..... if you believe, support or encourage people to use their children as a means to make money whether it is by queuing them in an alley in West Hollywood or ANY other type of money making scheme you are simply wrong.
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Need I remind you of what just happened in a school full of children?? at a safe place a school! what im trying to say is you never know what is going to happen at anytime anyplace pretty much to me nowhere is truly safe! have you ever been camping? I am assuming no, because you are so overwhemingly freaked out about "OMG" children sleeping in the alley! I take my son camping and you know there are bears! OMG! where we camp, and I take him Hiking but OMG there are snakes! and bike riding but Oh my the cliffs he might fall! oh and camping on the beach, OMG the big scary waves! everything we do with our children has some aspect of danger, Football! Hello!! you should call CPS because parents are letting thier kids slam into each other! but don't they know what risks they are putting thier kids in! I guess because I take my son camping and on outdoor adventures to us it was nothing, you have your opinion on this and been carrying on about it for days, we got it! but just so you know my son went with me because he wanted stitch and Angel and he has it proudly displayed in his book, and because he went we knew we could help some fellow members here on this this site and get them one AT COST! so they would'nt have to pay mark up! because thats what we wanted to do! and many were Zapped away 2 Rapunzels 1 RH and 1 stitch all zapped! so I hardly think you can call me greedy! and my opinion you wern't there so you don't know! so many loving caring forum members there and wonderful kids all having a great time! I've herd your opinion over and over and over and here's my opinion it's no different than camping anywhere else and to me I see nothing wrong with it. Im glad my son went he had a great time and made new friends and still tells me how much fun he had! and if these pins are nothing to you mabey you need stop complaining about them. As for me and my son we had fun Lots of fun and would love to help other forum members whenever we go again. anytime Jordan and I see pins we like and choose to go wait in line and yep possibly overnight we are more than happy to help out DPFR's all they need do is ask.

And mabey you should stop basically calling some of your fellow DFR's greedy, what they do is thier buisness, I don't think it's cool of you to call them greedy.
 
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Dear everyone,

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I really would hate to see this be the 3rd DSF thread closed over the same release ^_^ I understand people have problems with others but PM's are a beautiful thing! Back to civility, yeah Mahrii, a Brave BT is inevitable...and most likely, will be a surprise release considering they'd only want 1 per person like Tangled instead of people hoarding them >_<
 
Molly said:
It is actually a term for the reasonable expectation for something to continue to be as it has been and has nothing to do with discrimination. If you can reasonably expect that because they have a pattern of any practice (have been doing it, whatever it is over and over) then it is reasonable to expect that they would continue to do so e.g. let you park your car, pay late and here modify the rules as need be.

My personal feelings for those being turned away is called empathy and something that clearly not everyone possess. I genuinely feel bad for someone that slept outside for days to be turned away at the last moment, its simply not fair imo.
As I have stated repeatedly I have zero interest in any of the pins in question and never, even before the camp-out was I looking for them. As to the Boyscout, family camp out question, if you take your child on vacation to camp it will never be in an alley in Hollywood where crime and craziness are rampant. They will not be forced to stay in a very limited area and wait in line for days. The question about meeting the President, event etc. that is an astounding NO I would not allow or force a small child to sleep in the streets in a line for anything or anyone ever. EVER!

Again if you child is a collector of anything that requires such sacrifices it is your duty as a parent to say no. This instance has nothing to do with collecting when it has been said over and over by friends of the parents that those pins purchased were only purchased to be sold which as I have been saying since my first post is CHILD EXPLOITATION. Defending it or making excuses as to why this one or not that one can or should do it is pointless. No adult should use their child in such a way period. If whatever, and I mean everything that the child waited in line for and purchased was only for his/her personal collection I would say the same thing about it being inappropriate just not child labor in essence but still child endangerment, abuse and still wrong.

If your child wants to get tattoos, smoke and party all night at five years old you say no because it&rsquo;s not appropriate. If they want to be groupies and follow a rock band around the country instead of going to school same answer I hope, no. Children need to be protected even if it&rsquo;s from their own parents sometimes. If anyone doubts that what was done constitutes abuse, endangerment and exploitation please feel free to call CPS with all of the actual facts (not some romanticized version of &ldquo;camping&rdquo😉 and inquire, I assure you it is.

Going forward I have said my peace and will not continue to defend my position on this matter. I collect pins because I love them. I joined this group to meet like minded individuals and I have thankfully but have also seen several newish as well as veteran members either run off or ostracized from the forum for not agreeing with certain peoples actions. Several people have posted about being afraid to say anything because they do not want to be attacked by the infamous group of board bullies that come to the aid of each other no matter how wrong they are. I did not join to become yet another outcast of the various "cliques" and certainly did not join to be just another "customer" to eBay sellers trying to avoid paying fees. I know where to go if I want to pay re-sale (inflated) prices.
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I think you're in the wrong place. I think last time I checked this is a pin forum not a parenting forum, if you want to talk pins thats great if you want to debate about what's right and wrong of a parent to do take it somewhere else.
 
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FYI, despite what the movie Double Jeopardy would have you believe, being falsely convicted of killing your husband (who actually faked his own death) does not make it legal for you to actually kill him.
 
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