Should DPF require that sellers take payment as a 'purchase' rather than a 'gift'?

[Merryweather]

But back on topic, make a decision with each purchase, there is no black and white yes or no.

This.

I think if you see the person all the time on the forum, if they have enough fb and so on, then it is ok to "gift". Actually I use "payment owed" option.

If the person is new, not well known, I calculate Paypal's fee and tag on top.

The amount is also another consideration. I can probably live with losing a $10 pin, but $275 for a BT set? I don't think so

 

[charlottetowell]

I think it should be up to the seller, and not for dpf to regulate....I know a lot of people would probably stop selling pins if that rule was enforced and gift payments were made to be against the rules....I know a few people have had a few bad experiences on here recently with pins not sent/sent late, or pre-purchases where theyve needed refunding etc, but an awful lot of people buy on here every day and have had no problems under the current rules....

 

[hopemax]

I'm sure we've all paid by gift at one point or another, but requesting gift payments or charging Paypal fees is a violation of Paypal's Terms of Service. That really should be the end of it. But we all know that it won't.

3.5 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase.

4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

 

[Romancing_Train]

For me I like people to use use gift option, but I usually do pick ups for the SAME people all the time. They know that if I don't make it home with the pins they get a prompt refund. I don't EVER sell 1,000s of dollars of pins at a time so I don't think the IRS is gonna come after me...


I always give people the option of paying the other way as long as they cover the fees. Some people who are new prefer this. Or if I'm getting alot of pins for someone and they want to make sure it'd insured we do it that way too.


I don't think DPF can really regulate or tell me how to sell or pre-sale my pins. I'd just do it through Facebook or private email anyways, so honesty I don't think there's much the site can do to stop me. And I'm NOT here saying this to be rude by any means! Just the way I see it.

 

[starry_solo]

I think if the buyer is willing to pay the costs for trackable shipping (if they are international), then payment via PayPal goods is fine.

I just paid £17 for insured, trackable shipping from the UK for 8 or 10 pins. I calculated that with the sales price and figured the total price was fine.

But for shipping from the US, internationally, that cost is pricey. It looks like, from the USPS website here:
https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction!input.action

that these are the 4 methods for trackable shipping:
[TABLE="width: 430"]
[TR]
[TD]Express Mail International®[/TD]
[TD]EC 000 000 000 US[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Priority Mail Internationalâ„¢[/TD]
[TD]CP 000 000 000 US[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Registered Mailâ„¢[/TD]
[TD]RA 000 000 000 US[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]Global Express Guaranteed®[/TD]
[TD]82 000 000 00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
All of which are pricey! So, it would depend on the pin that was purchased.

 

[Romancing_Train]

I think if the buyer is willing to pay the costs for trackable shipping (if they are international), then payment via PayPal goods is fine.

I just paid£17 for insured, trackable shipping from the UK for 8 or 10 pins. I calculated that with the sales price and figured the total price was fine.

But for shipping from the US, internationally, that cost is pricey. It looks like, from the USPS website here:
https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction!input.action

that these are the 4 methods for trackable shipping:
[TABLE="width: 430"]
[TR]
[TD]Express Mail International®[/TD]
[TD]EC 000 000 000 US[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Priority Mail International™[/TD]
[TD]CP 000 000 000 US[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Registered Mail™[/TD]
[TD]RA 000 000 000 US[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]Global Express Guaranteed®[/TD]
[TD]82 000 000 00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
All of which are pricey! So, it would depend on the pin that was purchased.

Just in case anyone doesn't want to look, from gonig to the post office myself and doing this (Which is much 'cheaper' then online) the tracking NOW will run you generally OVER 30$ each time.

 

[imp]

I'm sure we've all paid by gift at one point or another, but requesting gift payments or charging Paypal fees is a violation of Paypal's Terms of Service. That really should be the end of it. But we all know that it won't.

Interesting...I had no idea that taking a 'gift' payment for goods was a violation of Paypal's rules. I would still rather see a DPF rule, but the Paypal rule does open another option for people who pay as gift. When I've paid as gift I always include a note that the money is in payment for pin ##### + shipping, to help keep records straight for me and for the seller. ...I guess that if the buyer had done that and then didn't receive their pins, the buyer could report the seller for violation of this rule. It might not get your money back, but it might prevent the seller from doing the same thing in the future.

As for the surcharge, that would mean you can't charge more for paypal sales vs payment by some other method. ...but a seller can always build total expected costs into the sale prices.

 

[markheardjr]

Hopefully, even if DPF does nothing, at a minimum people get clued in.

 

[KILJOY667]

Considering Paypal is an electronic payment method and you are using their service the merchant (seller) should pay all fees involved. If you walk into a market and you use your debit/credit card the store pays a small fee. It's just the cost of doing business. So I strongly believe that the seller should pay the fee under ALL circumstances. Also, if you think about it. You're paying MAX 2.9% + .30 to have money electronically wired to you INSTANTLY. So lets say you send me $100. I'm paying $3.20 so I can have access to $100 instantly. Normally a bank wire/check/money order will take about 2-5 days.

 

[hopemax]

Interesting...I had no idea that taking a 'gift' payment for goods was a violation of Paypal's rules.

As for the surcharge, that would mean you can't charge more for paypal sales vs payment by some other method. ...but a seller can always build total expected costs into the sale prices.

Exactly, and that's what used to happen here. When the board first started, no one asked for gift payment. Sellers paid the fees as a "cost of doing business." Then one person asked for gift, and then snowballed.

 

[imp]

Well... I just have one question...

Does anyone remember "xxxxx"? She was super active and on here all the time. I got royally scr%w*d by her! No pins... no money back.

"Nuff said.

Hi there...glad to see the input, but would you please remove the member ID?

 

[Psycho Pixie]

Yes: I have a regular sales thread. I always tell people they can pay as goods or as gift. Some of my regulars pay as gift, because they know and trust me. But my preference is goods. It protects the buyers and helps me track things better. The paypal fee's are not a major concern to me, a fee is a fee. It's still lower than the sales fee's from eBay.

Paying as goods or merchandise protects the buyer. It also sets the payment up for easy shipping because it gives you the option to print shipping label right there. It also makes it easier to track if you need to do a refund.

As to how DPF would regulate that rule... Easy really, a sales thread should already state how payment is expected to be paid, when it should be paid, when refunds would be issued and what prices the items are listed at. No big deal to ensure that it says payment as goods not gift. If finalization of payment via PM shows that the seller insisted on gift instead of goods, that's a problem. But if the buyer chooses to send as gift because they trust the seller, so be it.

A seller should not be insulted that someone wants to pay as goods/merch instead of gift. Why would you be insulted by that? They are not implying your going to steal from them, they are protecting their purchase.

 

[ilovemyjacks]

Considering Paypal is an electronic payment method and you are using their service the merchant (seller) should pay all fees involved. If you walk into a market and you use your debit/credit card the store pays a small fee. It's just the cost of doing business. So I strongly believe that the seller should pay the fee under ALL circumstances. Also, if you think about it. You're paying MAX 2.9% + .30 to have money electronically wired to you INSTANTLY. So lets say you send me $100. I'm paying $3.20 so I can have access to $100 instantly. Normally a bank wire/check/money order will take about 2-5 days.

+1

 

[Story]

As for the surcharge, that would mean you can't charge more for paypal sales vs payment by some other method. ...but a seller can always build total expected costs into the sale prices.

That's what I end up doing- I prepare my prices with "goods" method, but I always leave the choice up to the buyer.

 

[HandA]

I voted "no", but can see both sides. Maybe I'm ignorant on this since I haven't been around as long as most, but is the main purpose for DPF to be a place to buy and sale pins? I was drawn here as I saw more of a forum where a community can talk and trade. It seems lately and maybe it's just me that this place seems to have a lot more for profit type stuff, more drama, and less fun. Maybe I'm seeing things though ... I still love this place and I'm on here far more than I should be (like right now :anxious.


If you purchasing from someone on this site, it seems like it would be much more of a friendly transaction and one where trust should not be an issue. If it is, you have the choice to pay however you feel comfortable and work it through with the seller. Once we start regulating and making it more like a business well, let's just ask her what happens ...

(I'll leave the quotes out of it for fear of getting infracted)

 

[Nettiejeanne]

I deleted my post, but just FYI, the "member" has been banned for life, so I didn't feel I was besmirching anyone's character. But I don't want to cause problems, so it's gone.

 

[imp]

I deleted my post, but just FYI, the "member" has been banned for life, so I didn't feel I was besmirching anyone's character. But I don't want to cause problems, so it's gone.

Oh I think the post was fine....I just thought it would be better to say member 'x'....you never know if someone has friends here, and I didn't want to risk this ending up as an argument about specific people.

 

[Rocke01]

I usually will ask that payment be sent as a gift but would not have a problem if the person wanted to use the purchase option. They would just have to ask. I use the gift option to keep costs down for my buyers. If the purchase option was used the price would go up. It is as simple as that for me. I try to only sell enough to cover any extra bills that pop up and that is it. I don't think I would ever hit the mark for taxes either way. If I could I would keep all my pins and not ever sell any but life has other plans at times. What I don't want it DPF telling me how it has to be done. That should be between the buyer and the seller. Why does everyone want DPF to micromanage us in everything? Sellers will usually work with buyers. If you want to pay extra to feel safer then just talk to your seller. I am sure they don't mind adding 4% to your charge in order to keep you happy.

 

[Psycho Pixie]

random question. Because i am kind of lazy and dont want to nagivate my way through paypal to find the answer...

What % or amount does paypal actually charge for a payment as goods?

 

[ilovemyjacks]

random question. Because i am kind of lazy and dont want to nagivate my way through paypal to find the answer...

What % or amount does paypal actually charge for a payment as goods?

They charge 2.9% + a $.30 processing fee. I think a seller eating $3.10 on a $100 sale is pretty fair all around. Just saying... :|

 

[Psycho Pixie]

which is why i asked. I knew the fee was low. But not how low. No reason for us to ask for gift when the fee is that small. it would hurt our wallets.

 

[TheGrimGrinner]

From the Sales Forum rules:

"All sales and purchases are at the risk of the individuals involved. Please be certain that you make safe and intelligent secure payment and shipping arrangements. DisneyPinForum.com is not responsible/liable for any pin(s) advertised for sale in this forum, the integrity of that product's representation, any sales that go uncompensated, or the shipment or transport of any items."

Going along with that, it is not up to the forum to regulate how people request payment. It is up to the individual to make sure that they feel comfortable with the way that they pay for the pin. If you don't feel safe sending money as gift, don't do it.

This is true. Hadn't even thought of it myself :lol:

I agree that DPF doesn't currently require payment as a 'purchase', but there is no reason why they can't create that requirement...the issue here is whether they should.

I think the problem I see right now, is how CAN we enforce such a rule? Payments are handled off of DPF, and sometimes not even through paypal. Should we not allow the shipment of cash, or check either, because there's no way to be compensated from that if something goes wrong? It is the responsibility of both the seller AND the buyer the abide by PayPal rules.

For me personally, I usually say in my sale threads that while I prefer payment of gift, payment of goods is accepted with the 3% fee to be paid by the buyer. Sometimes, I'm even nice enough to do the math for them in both gift and goods for the total cost. Sometimes.... But it all falls back to your reputation within the community, and if you expect repeat business, you have to make sure you're taking care of your clients.

Pretty much, for those of you that are responding "Yes" to this poll, I would like to hear your proposals as to how this would be enforced, and your recommendations on patrolling, enforcing, and reprimanding. We can always take your suggestions under review!

 

[Psycho Pixie]

Pretty much, for those of you that are responding "Yes" to this poll, I would like to hear your proposals as to how this would be enforced, and your recommendations on patrolling, enforcing, and reprimanding. We can always take your suggestions under review!

see the bold part below.

Yes: I have a regular sales thread. I always tell people they can pay as goods or as gift. Some of my regulars pay as gift, because they know and trust me. But my preference is goods. It protects the buyers and helps me track things better. The paypal fee's are not a major concern to me, a fee is a fee. It's still lower than the sales fee's from eBay.

Paying as goods or merchandise protects the buyer. It also sets the payment up for easy shipping because it gives you the option to print shipping label right there. It also makes it easier to track if you need to do a refund.

As to how DPF would regulate that rule... Easy really, a sales thread should already state how payment is expected to be paid, when it should be paid, when refunds would be issued and what prices the items are listed at. No big deal to ensure that it says payment as goods not gift. If finalization of payment via PM shows that the seller insisted on gift instead of goods, that's a problem. But if the buyer chooses to send as gift because they trust the seller, so be it.

A seller should not be insulted that someone wants to pay as goods/merch instead of gift. Why would you be insulted by that? They are not implying your going to steal from them, they are protecting their purchase.

 

[imp]

I think the problem I see right now, is how CAN we enforce such a rule? Payments are handled off of DPF, and sometimes not even through paypal. Should we not allow the shipment of cash, or check either, because there's no way to be compensated from that if something goes wrong? It is the responsibility of both the seller AND the buyer the abide by PayPal rules.

For me personally, I usually say in my sale threads that while I prefer payment of gift, payment of goods is accepted with the 3% fee to be paid by the buyer. Sometimes, I'm even nice enough to do the math for them in both gift and goods for the total cost. Sometimes.... But it all falls back to your reputation within the community, and if you expect repeat business, you have to make sure you're taking care of your clients.

Pretty much, for those of you that are responding "Yes" to this poll, I would like to hear your proposals as to how this would be enforced, and your recommendations on patrolling, enforcing, and reprimanding. We can always take your suggestions under review!

No rule can be enforced perfectly...if that were the test, we wouldn't have any rules (or laws, for that matter). For instance, DPF requires that sellers post prices (ie. no cash auctions), but there is nothing to prevent people from PM'g the seller to say 'I know you agreed to sell that pin to someone else, but I'll pay you $x more if you'll sell to me'. Similarly, no cash or PM's are allowed in trade auctions, but if a bidder sends the auctioneer a PM offering a $50 payment in addition to the pins bid, and the auctioneer accepts, how will DPF know? ....my point is that the inability to ensure universal compliance doesn't mean that the rule shouldn't be there. Whether we should have such a rule is of course up to the administrators/mods.

 

[starry_solo]

There are always ways to get around rules. LOL.

The whole surcharge issue that hopemax quoted - there are ways to get around it. Gas stations do it all the time, mom & pop places do it all the time - GIVE A DISCOUNT for paying cash/as a gift.

Anyone who wants to buy pre-sales or do pick-ups, sellers will find a way to get around that rule....how? Easy, require payment up front as a postal money order (why a postal money order? Because fakes of those are easier to spot by the post office and, if it's fake, the seller can finger who sent it to them).