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Time for my rant...

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RiftRaftStreetRat said:
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Wall-E is ready too!

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The crowd dispurses as the staff announces a delay in the event... I guess it is time to do my yardwork and come back for the afternoon showing... Wait till I get back... I do not want to miss Steamboat Willie... I am already whistling the song... Well that and the beat from the Swedish Chef video... lol...

Da dun dun dun dun da...
Da dun dun dun dun da...
Da dun dun dun da dun dun dun da dun dun dun da dun.... LOL... Come on everyone join in...

Da dun dun dun dun da...
 
Only last post that I didn't get UP pin after all . He had the Lion King marquee . I was trading and paying cash, I'm not sad that it didn't work out and sorry I upset some members . It was meant to be .
 
Outside the grimey window, a neon light flickered. “Whaddaya mean you don’t love me?!” she said. She sat up at the end of my bed, showing those goregous gams that got me into this hectic hobby. I thought to myself “What have I done? Where did it all go wrong?”. I scattered the pins in a semi-circle around my desk, its steel pin backs biting as sharply as my morning scotch. Grunting, flicking a dying ember from the tip of my cigarette, I surveyed the damage. I spent all my cabbage on pins this week, and I knew there was no turning back. My cigarette burnt my fingertips and I couldn’t get the next one out fast enough. “You did this to me you rotten tramp!”, I screamed. She was a gorgeous dame, but I didn’t have the guts to tell her. The mascera started to run down her face like a buncha bent cars screamin’ down the freeway. I had to choose: the pins or the chick. “Get your mitts off my pins, and get the heck out of my room!” I said. I slid deeper into my chair as she left and lit another cigarette. I needed answers.
 
My rant is about Trade Auctions....

Okay, ready for my rant....Here goes....

Yes, we all love participating in them…me especially when I see one bid all by its lonesome self for a pin that I don’t even want, but feel like I should bid because there’s only one bid!

I know with the hype that some pins are more valuable than others (especially with those most recent DSF ones beginning in February.) To think, I went in January 2012 and got those Beloved Tales pins at 9:30 a.m. after eating Breakfast with Belle (and there were only a dozen other people in line) ….but I am off-topic for the moment.

Back to Trade Auctions. They have been great (thanks to Goofy_Moe for starting the craze.) But I am getting tired of them. I see pins that have a great trade/wants ratio but can still be purchased on ebay, often times for less than the value of the pins that are bid. I know I should stop looking at them, but I can't!

I know value is in the eye of the bidder. I also know that pins are purchased at good prices so that, although the pin used to place a bid might have a value of $$, it was only purchased for $. I know that sometimes one trades hard for the pin that is being auctioned so that they value the pin at a higher price. I do that sometimes, although I don’t remember every single trade I ever made and have long stopped tracking them, other than remembering that one person still may owe me pins (I think I'm still waiting for one to come in the mail; darn that slow mail!).

So, I sometimes wonder about the bids being placed. If they far out-value the going price (on ebay) for the auctioned bid, does the auctioneer add something extra in there to make the trade more “even?†Does the auctioneer feel bad that he or she is getting such great pins for their single pin or set of pins? Does the winning bidder feel bad that he or she has committed himself or herself to the auction until it ends with his or her bid? Or it's just another trade where everyone feels all happy for getting pin(s) they want?

Have there ever been any auctions which weren't actually completed? Off-topic: I know I sometimes lose track of whether I've won an auction or not so unless I get a PM from the auctioneer, it's like what?! And then, it's uh oh, what did I bid? Mad scramble to find the pins I bid?! EEK!

While one can compare this to ebay, one does still have the option of retracting his or her bid (until about 12 hours before the auction ends).

This is not meant to single any particular individual(s) and I apologize in advance if I have inadvertently offended anyone with my rant.

Okay, I think I am done ranting. Off-topic: How many times did I use the word rant? Hmm, only four. I guess that's okay.

Thoughts?
 
Tinker said:
Only last post that I didn't get UP pin after all . He had the Lion King marquee . I was trading and paying cash, I'm not sad that it didn't work out and sorry I upset some members . It was meant to be .
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This isn't about the other thread Tinker. This is Starry_Solo's post. Let's stay on topic. Thanks.
 
starry_solo said:
I know value is in the eye of the bidder. I also know that pins are purchased at good prices so that, although the pin used to place a bid might have a value of $$, it was only purchased for $. I know that sometimes one trades hard for the pin that is being auctioned so that they value the pin at a higher price. I do that sometimes, although I don’t remember every single trade I ever made and have long stopped tracking them, other than remembering that one person still may owe me pins (I think I'm still waiting for one to come in the mail; darn that slow mail!).

So, I sometimes wonder about the bids being placed. If they far out-value the going price (on ebay) for the auctioned bid, does the auctioneer add something extra in there to make the trade more “even?” Does the auctioneer feel bad that he or she is getting such great pins for their single pin or set of pins? Does the winning bidder feel bad that he or she has committed himself or herself to the auction until it ends with his or her bid? Or it's just another trade where everyone feels all happy for getting pin(s) they want?
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This is so funny. Judy and I have been chatting on the phone for the last 30 mins. This was one of the concerns we were talking about.
 
I share your frustrations so you are not alone. There have been several auctions where I looked at the bids and thought "Are you people crazy?!?!?!?! What are you doing?!?!?!"

To add onto what you said, there have been two other points that have been bothering me:

1) I think some people are working together, placing bids for each other as a safety net, "picking" that person if they don't like the other bids, and then never completing the trade. It is that last part that bothers me. If a friend bids on your auction, fine, but complete the trade so that it is fair to everyone else.

2) It is somewhat of a popularity contest. Some auctions won't do as well as they should and others will do way better than they should simply because of the person who is auctioning it off. I know I'm somewhat guilty of this. There are auctions I won't even look at because I don't really want to deal with the person conducting it or I suspect they aren't playing fair (referring to point 1).
 
WHen I first came back to the forum in June, I didn't know what trade auctions were. My first one only had one bid, but I was happy to make the trade! It was so much fun for me! I really enjoy them but I don't bid on them too often because I know myself...I am a very competitve person and I get into the spirit of the bidding and way over bid sometimes. This has happened to me a lot on the "other" site! :) I don't have many friends on this forum, I would like to. I used to trade with Judy (Tiggermickey) a lot before my husband got so sick! I didn't know that friends were bidding on each other's auctions and not completing trades, that seems completely unfair! BUT I LOVE the idea of trade auctions.
 
SwinginKitten said:
I didn't know that friends were bidding on each other's auctions and not completing trades, that seems completely unfair!
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Just to be clear, that is my suspicion. I can't prove it but when I look at who is bidding on which auctions and then watch trades/owns lists never change....just saying I suspect it is going on. And if you watch, you will see the same characters going gaga over each others auctions. Not saying that those aren't always legit, but it seems to me they are more free with their bidding because it is their buddy and if it were someone else they wouldn't be throwing down those bids.
 
erudolf said:
Just to be clear, that is my suspicion. I can't prove it but when I look at who is bidding on which auctions and then watch trades/owns lists never change....just saying I suspect it is going on. And if you watch, you will see the same characters going gaga over each others auctions. Not saying that those aren't always legit, but it seems to me they are more free with their bidding because it is their buddy and if it were someone else they wouldn't be throwing down those bids.
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I gotcha! But if that was really happening, that would be disappointing!
 
erudolf said:
Just to be clear, that is my suspicion. I can't prove it but when I look at who is bidding on which auctions and then watch trades/owns lists never change....just saying I suspect it is going on. And if you watch, you will see the same characters going gaga over each others auctions. Not saying that those aren't always legit, but it seems to me they are more free with their bidding because it is their buddy and if it were someone else they wouldn't be throwing down those bids.
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The trends do follow this linearity... Sadly :(
 
starry_solo said:
So, I sometimes wonder about the bids being placed. If they far out-value the going price (on ebay) for the auctioned bid, does the auctioneer add something extra in there to make the trade more “even?†Does the auctioneer feel bad that he or she is getting such great pins for their single pin or set of pins? Does the winning bidder feel bad that he or she has committed himself or herself to the auction until it ends with his or her bid? Or it's just another trade where everyone feels all happy for getting pin(s) they want?
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I would *hope* most auctions end with the bidder feeling happy that they have won, because no one has forced them to bid at all. They are willingly bidding pins, just as in a conventional trade you would willingly offer up certain pins for a trade. I don't know why they would feel bad for committing themselves to an auction that they have willingly participated in. It is up to the bidders to do their homework and research current selling prices and if a pin is currently for sale for a certain price.

As for the auctioneer...it would obviously depend on what pins were offered by the bidders. It seems that most trade auctions have ended fairly well, with the auctioneer getting a "fair" trade for the pin they auctioned off. I personally will probably never do a trade auction, unless it was a pin I had an extra of, or had already tried to trade multiple times to no avail. I just don't want to take the risk of not liking what I end up with, when I could just as easily post a thread in the regular trading section and essentially accomplish the same thing, with results I am happy with. The only real difference between a trade auction and a regular trade is the "one-upping" that occurs when you can see what others have offered. This could definitely become an advantage to the auctioneer, but again no one is forcing the bidders to bid more, they are doing it by choice.

And I don't know why the auctioneer would feel compelled to give more than the pin that was auctioned off, because once again no one had forced the bidders to bid anything.

I just won a trade auction for Reveal/Conceal Belle where I traded all five of these pins for the one Belle pin:



Some people probably think I am crazy, but to me it was a fair trade that I would do again in a heartbeat. I am slowly dismantling my Alice collection, so it was not extremely hard to part with those pins, I had an extra of the Sleeping Beauty pin, and the Tinker Bell pin I bought when it was released and I don't really have an attachment to it. And I always think of values...when I added up the values of my pins (what I paid for them and what I think they are worth) to the value I have placed on Reveal Conceal Belle (which has been really tough for me to find and is part of a set I am actively trying to complete) the values matched up for me pretty equally.

Yes, I am sure some people end up over-bidding on auctions and just get caught up in it all...but that is not anyone's fault but their own. The auctioneer shouldn't feel bad in any way that the bidder over-bid on their auction. And it is all relative anyways...some people would probably bid like crazy if the Up Marquee was auctioned off, whereas I wouldn't bid at all...just as I bid generously for Reveal Conceal Belle when some people have no interest in that pin.


And if people are bidding on their friends' auctions and not actually trading when the auction has ended...not cool. :nono:
 
Here are my thoughts...

starry_solo said:
So, I sometimes wonder about the bids being placed. If they far out-value the going price (on ebay) for the auctioned bid, does the auctioneer add something extra in there to make the trade more “even?” Does the auctioneer feel bad that he or she is getting such great pins for their single pin or set of pins? Does the winning bidder feel bad that he or she has committed himself or herself to the auction until it ends with his or her bid? Or it's just another trade where everyone feels all happy for getting pin(s) they want?
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I was thinking about this during my auction of the Brave bears, because people bid such high bids-- at first I was like WOAH! I thought I ought to feel bad for getting such great pins compared to the dollar amount I paid another DSF member for that set.

So I tried to think about it logically. Okay, why might I feel bad? I haven't deceived anyone. Every bidder knew exactly what was up for auction. I didn't add anything or promise anything extra. Every bidder was bidding of their own free will, having decided what the value of their pins was to them. Every bidder chose for themselves what they wanted to bid; it's not like it was a trade where I asked people to bid certain things (or kept changing what I was asking for, like I've heard has happened in some trades gone wrong). I knew going in that I might not get any bids I particularly wanted, and then I'd have to pick one, and I accepted that.

The winner had bid two of my grails, plus four other LE pins, but for all I knew the bears were her grails. I wanted her pins more than the bears, and she wanted the bears more than the pins she bid. We both entered into the trade knowing exactly what we were getting, and of our own choice. So I don't really see why anyone on either end should feel bad.

It's not really that different from someone overtrading to get one of their grails. If they want that grail pin that badly, and they have traders they don't value as much as that grail, then that's the trade they'll make if they're comfortable with it. No one is coercing anyone to bid, and no one is deceiving anyone about the value of their pins.

(I'm not saying you're accusing anyone of deception, not at all! It's just that this was my actual thought process. The only reason I could think of for anyone to feel bad is if there was deception or coercion. I think there's no reason for anyone to feel bad about the auctions as long as there is honesty on both sides.)

I do know that sometimes I've gotten excited about the competition of the thing, even if it wasn't a pin I had originally wanted that much. I think that the trade auctions have an added entertainment value, and that the bidders are paying (with pins) for entertainment as much as we're paying for the pins. And I think that's okay. Because again, the thing we're bidding on is right there in black and white. If we don't want to bid, nobody's making us do it.

I know I have also gotten excited recently because, with my birthday, and after having been financially supporting a family member who suddenly didn't need the support last month, I had some extra money with which to build up my collection! And so I felt like I'd FINALLY built up my traders enough to have some things to bid that people would find valuable. I don't know if that's happened to anyone else.

Off-topic: I know I sometimes lose track of whether I've won an auction or not so unless I get a PM from the auctioneer, it's like what?! And then, it's uh oh, what did I bid? Mad scramble to find the pins I bid?! EEK!
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This started to happen to me too, so heeding the secretary's blood in my veins, I started a spreadsheet! One for auctions I'm in, with the date ending and what I've bid and what I'm bidding on; one for pending trades; one for pins that are coming to me, so that I know what I'm going to have that I haven't added to pinpics yet.

...yeah, I'm a huge dork. :D
 
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AmySchweppe said:
It's good to vent sometimes ;) xoxo.

Li, lets go on chat and ebay shop for clothes :)
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Yes, we should. That reminds me, I need to go pay for that dress I won, before I get five PMs and invoices asking where the money is (and then get cursed at for leaving positive, but rude feedback). LOL
 
some good points are made here. I have some good pins, some bad pins, some pins in between. I have pins from wants lists. I don't win those auctions because other folks waaaay overbid.

I get it, its an auction, may the best bid win. But seriously, why over bid on the auction? Just negotiate a trade with someone for a fair trade. I bid as close to "fair" as I can on auctions. I expect the same from people bidding on my auctions. Its part of why I wont auction off the crazy high want pins.

I wont bid 5 LE pins for 1 LE pin. It just is not fair. Sorry, but the PODM's... not worth 5 LE300's to me, and I wont do it. I dont expect people to over bid on my auctions either. Granted I dont auction pins off that people go GAGA over, if I did, I would prolly NOT choose the pin vomiter, I would choose the one with the things I wanted most.

The unfortunate result of my personal feelings toward auctions is that I will NEVER win an auction for a nice high value trade pin. And if one of my few grails came up for auction, chances are I wouldnt win it either because other folks will want it. Other folks who are willing to drop LE100's for a LE500. which is just well... insane.
 
erudolf said:
Just to be clear, that is my suspicion. I can't prove it but when I look at who is bidding on which auctions and then watch trades/owns lists never change....just saying I suspect it is going on. And if you watch, you will see the same characters going gaga over each others auctions. Not saying that those aren't always legit, but it seems to me they are more free with their bidding because it is their buddy and if it were someone else they wouldn't be throwing down those bids.
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That makes me sad to hear. I have such fun in the auctions and I have actually made some new friends in them.

I don't put something in my owns/trades list until I actually receive it in the mail, which can sometimes a while... maybe other people are like this too? Maybe it's just that nothing changes very soon after the auctions.

I dunno, I always try to think the best of people...
 
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