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Time for my rant...

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Time for my rant...
Goofy_Moe said:
60% of the time you will make out like a bandit... bids way over the value of the item you are auctioning...
Click to expand...

I think this part is what makes me uneasy.

Of course a pin's worth in $$ fluctuates widely from person to person, from Ebay auction to Ebay auction. But still. I see a lot of auctions ending in fairly lop sided trades and I just can't wrap my mind around it. I do not se how this fits in with "fairness" "honesty" and "integrity.
 
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Let's see if I can explain this point differently... If my holy grail scoop pin was up for auction, and I knew the person collected Stitch and PoDM's... Sure we have many of both... But my investment into my Stitch pins, since we started collecting those recently merely to use as traders, is usually just under the true value of the pin, or I would not have bought it... So let's say it is a $100 Stitch I paid $50 for... But on the flip side if I had a few PoDM's that I bought and got lucky on the scenes... A Lion King with all characters on it... My pin is valued at $125 and my investment is $30... Now multiply this by a factor of 5... Now if I felt my bid for the Scoop needed to be about the $500 - $600 range to win... I wouldn't choose to offer 5 stitch pins which cost me $250, but instead bid 4 cells which would cost me $120... Both have a $500 value to the Auctioneer, but my investment is less than half with one option... Now either option for me would still be ok... As if I were to fight it out on E-Bay, this may cost me in excess of $300 cash out of pocket, not in trade for pins I have paid for already... And Again Lopsided is in the eye of the outside party not the ones who are willing to give up these amounts for their holy grails... They are not holy grails for nothing... I would have bid over $800 in pins for my grail if my investment into those pins were less than what I was willing to pay for it in cash... But again that is just me and I can be a stupid trader that way... So if you have my grails... LOL

Merryweather said:
I think this part is what makes me uneasy.

Of course a pin's worth in $$ fluctuates widely from person to person, from Ebay auction to Ebay aucion. But still. I see a lot of auctins ending in fairly lop sided trades and I just can't wrap my mind around it.
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I have had ties in our auction before... mostly when my wife and I each want a different bid to win and it is time for the leaders to be posted, but there is no way we are done arguing for our picks and who should win... LOL... I am trying harder to never post ties, as I feel it falls under the realm on asking bidders to up their bids, Saying comments regarding each specific bid placed(I have pin 2, do not collect Ariel...), these are fine lines with being ok and harrassing to the bidders... I often get asked question, via PM or on the post... I try to answer all question from eaither source on the auction thread for all to see, so it stays fair...
 
Goofy_Moe said:
Let's see if I can explain this point differently... If my holy grail scoop pin was up for auction, and I knew the person collected Stitch and PoDM's... Sure we have many of both... But my investment into my Stitch pins, since we started collecting those recently merely to use as traders, is usually just under the true value of the pin, or I would not have bought it... So let's say it is a $100 Stitch I paid $50 for... But on the flip side if I had a few PoDM's that I bought and got lucky on the scenes... A Lion King with all characters on it... My pin is valued at $125 and my investment is $30... Now multiply this by a factor of 5... Now if I felt my bid for the Scoop needed to be about the $500 - $600 range to win... I wouldn't choose to offer 5 stitch pins which cost me $250, but instead bid 4 cells which would cost me $120... Both have a $500 value to the Auctioneer, but my investment is less than half with one option... Now either option for me would still be ok... As if I were to fight it out on E-Bay, this may cost me in excess of $300 cash out of pocket, not in trade for pins I have paid for already... And Again Lopsided is in the eye of the outside party not the ones who are willing to give up these amounts for their holy grails... They are not holy grails for nothing... I would have bid over $800 in pins for my grail if my investment into those pins were less than what I was willing to pay for it in cash... But again that is just me and I can be a stupid trader that way... So if you have my grails... LOL
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Not trying to put words in Merryweather's mouth, but I think what perplexes people about that scenario, assuming all values are legit, wouldn't you be better off just selling off your pins for $500, buying the Scoop for $300, and pocketing the $200?

I think that is what isn't making sense to people. I get what you are saying and do it myself, but within reason, and typically when I can't readily buy it. If a pins is worth $150 I might offer $175-$200 worth of pins for it if I can't find it anywhere else. But if I can buy it for $150...I'm doing that before I offer more in a trade for it....unless I'm offering pins I REALLY don't care about at all and just want to get rid of.

I guess it is a matter of your perspective....I have very few opportunities to get pins at cost now so I have to be very careful/smart with how I operate. I can barely afford my own collection let alone subsidizing someone else's. Therefore, I have to be tight with the pins I do have - many of which were acquired at market value. I guess I might see it a little differently if I knew I could just replenish my good traders with the next release...
 
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Sure that is the case if the Scoop pin or whatever grail pin I want is ever up for auction... I went three and a half years looking for it then all of a sudden there were two around in the same month...??? Perhaps attainability is more of a factor in the scenario I described... Also sometimes to sell off your pins in time to aquire a grail that just shows up is not feesable and you are willing to do what you need to do to attain it... Again most traders are not in the same obsessed mindset that I am in...

Also, I suffer more than Violet from Willey Wonka with the whole... "I want it and I want it NOW...!!!" Sort of thing...
Just Sayin... That is just me...

erudolf said:
Not trying to put words in Merryweather's mouth, but I think what perplexes people about that scenario, assuming all values are legit, wouldn't you be better off just selling off your pins for $500, buying the Scoop for $300, and pocketing the $200?

I think that is what isn't making sense to people. I get what you are saying and do it myself, but within reason, and typically when I can't readily buy it. If a pins is worth $150 I might offer $175-$200 worth of pins for it if I can't find it anywhere else. But if I can buy it for $150...I'm doing that before I offer more in a trade for it....unless I'm offering pins I REALLY don't care about at all and just want to get rid of.
Click to expand...
 
erudolf said:
Not trying to put words in Merryweather's mouth, but I think what perplexes people about that scenario, assuming all values are legit, wouldn't you be better off just selling off your pins for $500, buying the Scoop for $300, and pocketing the $200?
Click to expand...

Nope, not that really. I can give you an example from a current auction:

Pin's face value is about $15. Sure enough on the first day of release its price skyrocketed, but I think in another week or so it will settle in the $80-$100 range.

There are bids involving multiple PoDM pins where face value is $70, but market value is in the $200 range. People get caught up in the heat of the moment and go overboard. Granted, they bid willingly and they should do their due diligence before placing bids, but I still can't pass those trades as "fair" in my book. But, it is only my humble opinion anyway.
 
starry_solo said:
If you have no bids, I think you can end your auction.
Click to expand...

I don't think that auctions should end prematurely. If you put up a pin for 4 days, some people will wait until the last day to bid. That's just the nature of the game. This is just me but I hate auctions that take more than 4 days because I hate waiting. If I bid early that means I have to hold onto those pins until someone beats me or for 4 days. Then at the end someone snipes and lets say I don't win the auction so now I just lost out on the possibility of trading those pins to someone else within those 4 days.
 
I think what feels lopsided to one person may not feel lopsided to another, especially if it's a grail pin. For me, when it's a grail or a most wanted, I don't care about market value at all, nor about the market value of the pins I'm trading for it. I mostly don't trust the ebay values to be reasonable anyway. I care about how much I want to keep the pins I have vs. how much I want the one I'm trading for. And maybe in theory I could sell my pins and buy the ones I want... IF the ones I want are actually for sale, and IF the ones I have actually have any buyers who would pay as much as I'd need. Those are big ifs.

And unless the pins up for auction or the pins bid were damaged, or fakes/scrappers, how does that *not* fit with honesty or integrity? Where is the dishonesty or... dis... uh... disintegrity? (I'm totally going with that as a word.)

In the end, I think a fair trade is just any trade that both sides are completely comfortable with.
 
Well we all knew which auction we were all talking about prior to your posting it...LOL... Yes that auction is mine... Do I feel the bids are more than what I would put up... Yes as we are collectors of PoDM's, I would not give up a cell for an UP pin... But if a person lives in Florida and is an UP completeist as many UP collectors are... Then this pin is a must have... As a Floridian they may have very easy access to the cells... Thus bidding them is super smart on their part... I have done this enough now to know when the best time to start an auction is, when to end them, and especially when to play the current HYPE... Sure the value may go down... but chances are it will go up as there are many more UP collectors that now need to compete with the Beloved Tales collectors for the same group of pins... And we all know that UP collectors are all nuts... LOL... Just kidding but really you guys are crazy people...
 
I think..the way I explained these auctions for the pins was this:

I am not rich. I buy pins when I have the chance too. But in that, if I have the money sometimes I'll get an extra pin.

Knowing that, in the Auctions and stuff, instead of me selling the pin, which might undersell, only to not get enough for the pin I really want, I can auction it where someone who feels the same way about their pins, who would rather not sell but use pins with little to no value to them (you know, love wise) for the pin I really want.

i.e. I have say snow white podm, it has no value to me, and I could sell it for alot of money. Or I can auction it, cut out the middle man and get pins I want for myself or more trades to get other things I like.

It is the same for people bidding. They have what I want, and though these pins maybe more value of the pin I want, they mean NOTHING to me.

My boyfriend chalked it up to the pins are their own currency. I have Tangled currency, but I need Lion King money, so I use personal exchange rates between the two and everyone gets what they want.
 
Merryweather said:
Nope, not that really. I can give you an example from a current auction:

Pin's face value is about $15. Sure enough on the first day of release its price skyrocketed, but I think in another week or so it will settle in the $80-$100 range.

There are bids involving multiple PoDM pins where face value is $70, but market value is in the $200 range. People get caught up in the heat of the moment and go overboard. Granted, they bid willingly and they should do their due diligence before placing bids, but I still can't pass those trades as "fair" in my book. But, it is only my humble opinion anyway.
Click to expand...

If I had PODM with wanted cells, and the pin up for trade was something I wanted, I would do this. $70 cost for a pin that will settle in around $80. If I think it will actually settle in at that price. In my mind, that's advantage me by $10.

I've learned some things about myself over the years. I don't handle high-end pins well. I usually end up trading them for far less than market value, although I do trade them for more than I paid for them. I just don't want the stress of worrying about market value. I don't want to sell because I've seen how people can change when they go from collector to seller. And I've seen how much that can hurt others. Throw in without having been a seller, I'm not sure how much I would have to sell for bidders to feel confident to attract maximum bids ( more Ebay than here) plus having to potentially deal with problem buyers. It's just not worth it to me. Plus, I don't like receiving all the trade requests where someone offers a $5 pin for a pin that sold for $25, like these PODMs. I would much prefer that I get the pin off my trades list, and into the hands of someone who actually wants it. And again, if I'm getting something I want for it, and is actually the cheapest way for me to obtain it... Because another thing I've learned about myself is I'm never going to spend $75, $100 or more on a pin. I've had 12 years for that to happen, and it hasn't happened yet. So 2 PODMs I got at cost, sign me up. Actually, I probably already did it. I doubt Erica thought her set of Scoop pins would get 2 PODMs + and a DSF Little Mermaid Marquee. But I'm far happier having pins I like, not continually stressing over "what I'm going to do with these pins," and I like Erica, and wanted to see her have a successful auction.
 
I do not feel Kudos in the manor you are referring it is truely fair of you to say to me... Take a look at sold Beloved Tales on E-Bay... More than one sell at an average of over $150... If Lady and the Tramp sold for $190, do you not think the value of the UP Beloved tales will exceed that in a year... You will not be able to even find one like I stuggled to find the Fantasia Mickey one until a Co-Op was formed or else I still wouldn't have it coming to me... So Kudos to me for putting up a hot pin that everyone who collects it wants to own it??? I guess your right play on... and we all will... If you would like you can always go spend the night on the streets of Hollywood for 20 hours and get one yourself... Is my time and effort not worth something... This is not just a $15 pin as mentioned above, but a collectors item that many of the collectors in our community want to own... Just saying if it were just a pin you can go to a park and buy it would not be worth debating it's value to the people who want it...

Merryweather said:
Well, kudos to you then, play on.
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Moe .... I am confused. You call yourself honest & fair and yet in your posts above you almost brag about knowing when to play the current HYPE and making out like a bandit 60% of the time.

I am sorry but I have great difficulty in reconciling these concepts.
 
Goofy_Moe said:
I do not feel Kudos in the manor you are referring it is truely fair of you to say to me... Take a look at sold Beloved Tales on E-Bay... More than one sell at an average of over $150... If Lady and the Tramp sold for $190, do you not think the value of the UP Beloved tales will exceed that in a year...
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Okay, this is wrong. Click on the Lady and the Tramp pin. It didn't sell for $190, it sold for $90. The BIN price was $190, but it sold with a best offer. The other Lady & the Tramp pin sold recently for $80. There are no Beloved Tales pins going for more than $150. Mermaid has been going around $130, BatB about $100, but I think it is going to soon be in the Mermaid range. Everything else has been below $100, although that might change with this "frenzy" and the scarcity of the older pins. When pins only have 1-5 people trading, and none on Ebay for months, they justify their price. When there are 30 people trading on Pinpics, and nearly as many on Ebay, they aren't going to be worth $200. There are too many pins available. And look at the wants on pinpics. Way less than older pins.
 
I do not feel anyone on here has ever questioned me being honest and fair (If so please post or PM me so I can address the point in question)... And all of my post regarding running auctions are always intended to help others run their auction successfully... Perhaps that is why when you go into the Auction House my tips were made into a sticky for all to learn more (Guess you never read that tho)... So again my post stating playing the Hype is advice to pin traders wanting to try the auction system, and my chart of what to expect when running one is pretty dead on... perhaps the wording I used was wrong, but the fact remains the same... If anyone does the auction system right they will do good, not just me... If you cannot make it work for you, then perhaps that is where the problem lies...

Now you can stop this silly debate as I will not be returning to this thread... See the rest of you at the Auction House...
Merryweather said:
Moe .... I am confused. You call yourself honest & fair and yet in your posts above you almost brag about knowing when to play the current HYPE and making out like a bandit 60% of the time.

I am sorry but I have great difficulty in reconciling these concepts.
Click to expand...
 
Sometimes I think the rain will never stop. I tilt my hat and light up another cigarette. I inhale deeply and watch the embers burn. I feel my whole body start to relax again. Word on the street is that Goofy_Moe and his goons are wrecking havoc down at the auction house. I’m a one-man-band after the slugs two-timed me down at the station, but this band never stops. I need a drink. That mug Goofy_Moe practically makes out like a bandit every time he puts a pin up for auction. It’s about time someone cleans the streets of these goons, but the streets cant clean themselves.
 
Disney_Noir said:
Sometimes I think the rain will never stop. I tilt my hat and light up another cigarette. I inhale deeply and watch the embers burn. I feel my whole body start to relax again. Word on the street is that Goofy_Moe and his goons are wrecking havoc down at the auction house. I’m a one-man-band after the slugs two-timed me down at the station, but this band never stops. I need a drink. That mug Goofy_Moe practically makes out like a bandit every time he puts a pin up for auction. It’s about time someone cleans the streets of these goons, but the streets cant clean themselves.
Click to expand...

Just a question. Who are you? Or is this an alternate screen name? :/

 
hopemax said:
I doubt Erica thought her set of Scoop pins would get 2 PODMs + and a DSF Little Mermaid Marquee. But I'm far happier having pins I like, not continually stressing over "what I'm going to do with these pins," and I like Erica, and wanted to see her have a successful auction.
Click to expand...

I certainly did not! And I still feel endebted to you! :lol: <3
 
erudolf said:
I certainly did not! And I still feel endebted to you! :lol: <3
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Well, if it makes you feel better you can send me more pins! I won't complain.

But in that auction, as an example, I sent you pins I paid, what, $50 because there was some discounts. If I had wanted to go after those 12 pins, maybe average $8 each on Ebay with shipping, if I was lucky. That's $96. Almost twice as much as I paid. So I theoretically could have gotten "more" but who knows how long it would have taken to get something of value, that I really wanted. The requests I got for them in the time I owned them, were never fair. And I knew even if you didn't keep them, you could use them to help get Stitch pins or other Most Wanted pins. So I really feel like we both "won."
 
alright. Of course Moe knows how to "play" current hype. And why shouldnt he run auctions on those hyped pins? He is a trader who knows how to get the mpost from his pins. Woop-tee-doo. I cannot compete with the bids people place on his auctions, just like I cannot afford to buy those pins at resale.

How do I continue to enjoy trading? How do I avoid the whine B*&$^ and moan issues? I choose to collect pins that are in my price range instead of aiming for Tangled or Up. I love the movie Tangled, I cannot afford the pins, so I collect my next fav movie. HoND, which is in my budget. If the pins you want are out of price range. pick something else. Champagne taste on a beer budget is just going to frustrate you in pin collecting.

He does high end auctions. dont like it? dont bid.
 
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