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PIN & POP PIN & POP Site Announcements & Ideas

PIN & POP PIN & POP Site Announcements & Ideas
I know we are discussing this in various places. I'm just going to say as a user it is impossible for me to generate results, I have confidence is truly complete for a variety of the pin items I have bought from Disney. Examples, can include things like the Magical Mystery pins, or larger merchandise collections that contain a variety of product types individual pins, mystery boxes, boxed or frames, etc. but I keep running into this scenario, due to the size and breadth of my collection in unanticipated ways. I end up searching through hundreds of pages in both search box generated results and "newly released" view of the full database to make sure that I don't miss something. I can spend hours trying to put together lists that will match my desired result, and I can tell when reviewing Trade Arcade tables, that even spending as much time as I have, my lists are incomplete.

It is easy to find a specific pin, or box when you know exactly what you are looking for (which is what I expect most people do). It is not easy to have confidence when the similar stuff you are looking for are spread across multiple Series, if you have truly found all of them. If there are additional Series that for some reason didn't come up in your result (didn't know the right terminology, search parameters were too strict, etc). You found 8, but there are actually 11. Because you *don't* know what all you are looking for, and expecting the database will direct you to fill in gaps in your knowledge. Especially, when you are new to pins. Or even if you are old to pins trying to look back 20 years at something you didn't pay close enough attention to at the time and now are trying to figure out what you are still missing.

I am trying to find solutions that will save me hours of searching, and reviewing pages of results and still end up feeling like I'm missing stuff. Not simply to save a click from having to go into the details page and click a link there. How many 5-pin mystery pouch sets (Pixie Plush, Munchlings, Disney Mascots, etc) has Disney sold and what are they, if a person wanted to collect all of those (instead of collecting by a movie, character or attraction)? I have no idea, but getting an answer to that question is time consuming and frustrating.
 
Ajk said:
Thanks @Chris Nickols . That certainly makes sense to me. FWIW, it differs from what I am hearing from others. So it sounds like the communication part is the big needed/pending piece, even within P&P. What you describe as series aligns with what I have seen and understood. I had been hearing that was going to be moved down to the set level and Series was going to be changed to be a conglomeration of Sets, such as the example Hope gave above with the potential change to those mystery series. Glad to hear the current Series (and set) design is remaining the plan. Now I just need to convince someone to break all the mystery sets from the upcoming WDW 25th event into separate Series which is what started this whole discussion. :)
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I think Hope brings up a valid need and it's a gap that we have in our current structure. There has been a lot of discussion internally about how to properly address these gaps and we'll continue to add new functionality or change existing functionality to better meet the need - for instance, the tagging system is one place that we'll soon be changing to bring it in more in line with how it's being used (as opposed to how I originally assumed it would be used).

I think it's important to view P&P as an unfinished, iterating platform. We're building and changing based on what we learn from the community and how Disney (constantly) changes things in the pin market. Constant change at a fast pace with limited communication is probably where I'm professionally most comfortable but it definitely can create more headaches than it needs to and my communication both internally and externally could absolutely be better. Fortunately, keeping order of the chaos is one of the areas that our Mod team does an unbelievably amazing job at.
 
I attended the Niftie Fifties event have thought of a suggestion for PNP. Have you considered holding specialized Trade Arcades centered around RSPs at events? I would totally pay extra $20 for this. Well worth it in saving time. I am referring to Trade Arcades where only confirmed attendees with confirmed RSP results can be assigned a table. I often have pins in my RSPs from events that I want to trade away. Waiting until the next scheduled Trade Arcade does not take advantage of the popularity of event items close to the event. I know there are challenges of waiting for the day RSP results are announced and how long before those awarded RSP items decide if they wat to trade of sell an RSP item.
 
c25876f33d942fde641360586bba440c.jpg

Please consider differentiating the non series and non origin words (the base name of the pin) in the formatted “browse cards” - at least on the series page. I need to easily see which words that differentiate the pin from others in the series. I see that you include a dash to separate the parts. This is helpful, but easily overlooked when scanning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Feedback on new link on PnP to eBay sold listings:
I am saddened by the decision to include a link to eBay sold listings on PnP. This link lends credibility to what is (mostly) insignificant datapoints about pins value. What one or even a few people pay for a pin on eBay routinely does not translate into any real quality information on a pins value. Sold listings can also be faked/gamed and this is where the problem really starts. One pin sells to a FOMO and then all the pin trading sheep believe the price the FOMO paid should be how the pin is valued. I would like to discourage traders from using eBay sold listings with any significance for trade decision making. There are so many better and more interesting ways to trade a pin.

Going to eBay and finding a sold listing is a basic and simple (translation: lazy) way to decide if you should trade your pin or not.
 
Is there a way to organize our ISO or own list? I would love to be able to customize the organization. Maybe be able to make lists for different collections. I'm thinking like Amazons wishlist.
 
I have 38 Pin Books and counting. I have a few for specific wants (Tiny Kingdom, Hidden Mickey, etc), a Shopping List for my Dad, a Shopping List for DLR but most are my collection. It's hard to keep track of where all my pins are located so I've been creating a Pin Book for each Board, Bag or Binder I've inventoried. Then if I get a pin that goes in a specific set, I can look up other pins in that set and see where they are located so I can more efficiently put my new acquisitions away. Slowly working my way through everything.
 
hopemax said:
I have 38 Pin Books and counting. I have a few for specific wants (Tiny Kingdom, Hidden Mickey, etc), a Shopping List for my Dad, a Shopping List for DLR but most are my collection. It's hard to keep track of where all my pins are located so I've been creating a Pin Book for each Board, Bag or Binder I've inventoried. Then if I get a pin that goes in a specific set, I can look up other pins in that set and see where they are located so I can more efficiently put my new acquisitions away. Slowly working my way through everything.
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38 is a lot! What is the significance of limiting the number of private pin books?
 
TheMickeyMouseRules said:
Feedback on new link on PnP to eBay sold listings:
I am saddened by the decision to include a link to eBay sold listings on PnP. This link lends credibility to what is (mostly) insignificant datapoints about pins value. What one or even a few people pay for a pin on eBay routinely does not translate into any real quality information on a pins value. Sold listings can also be faked/gamed and this is where the problem really starts. One pin sells to a FOMO and then all the pin trading sheep believe the price the FOMO paid should be how the pin is valued. I would like to discourage traders from using eBay sold listings with any significance for trade decision making. There are so many better and more interesting ways to trade a pin.

Going to eBay and finding a sold listing is a basic and simple (translation: lazy) way to decide if you should trade your pin or not.
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Thank you for the feedback and sharing this perspective on the eBay sold listings. I think it's very probable that eBay sold listings are indeed faked/gamed but I'm not sure we're lending any credibility to it. Based from what I've seen, and whether good or bad, eBay sold prices are absolutely the most recommended way to attempt to understand the value of pins. One of the most asked questions (especially by new collectors) is "How much is this pin worth?" (maybe just after "Is my pin fake?") My hope was to create a shortcut for people to speed up the search.

Jenn and I have had many conversations around this and we definitely want P&P to serve the pin collector over the pin reseller. We absolutely recognize that resellers make up a large and important slice of the pin community but there are plenty of resources already that are optimized to cater to resellers. You collectors are definitely a different group altogether. You're passionate, knowledgable, opinionated, generous - It's inspiring that many of you are so quick to help each other find the ISO or grail needed and trade it for fair value. It feels like inflated prices and pin scalping are definitely on the rise. We have no desire to create tools to make scalping easier and we'd prefer to build systems that would neutralize it altogether. It's one of the reasons we built a trade platform instead of a selling platform (to be clear there are plenty of awesome resellers that are fair and don't price gouge even though they could).

All that to say that we're definitely not trying to contribute to the over-valued pin prices but I do think eBay sold prices can be a valuable resource for getting even a partial picture on popularity, scarcity, value and even fakes. Would it help to have a disclaimer or is there a post here on DPF that I could link to that goes into some of the nuance of eBay sold listings? I think that would be a better solution than simply ignoring that most are already considering sold listings as a valuable benchmark.

Again, thank you for the honest, thought-through feedback. It absolutely helps me build better stuff for the type of people I want to build better stuff for.
 
hopemax said:
I think it's just a way to add value to VIP memberships to people who are more collectors vs traders.
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Yes, this is absolutely our thinking. Limiting the number of private pin books is definitely arbitrary and the data storage needed isn't too much (over 13,000 pin books created now) but we do want to reward those that support us — it's because of them that we're able to keep Pin & Pop going and growing.
 
Chris Nickols said:
Thank you for the feedback and sharing this perspective on the eBay sold listings. I think it's very probable that eBay sold listings are indeed faked/gamed but I'm not sure we're lending any credibility to it. Based from what I've seen, and whether good or bad, eBay sold prices are absolutely the most recommended way to attempt to understand the value of pins. One of the most asked questions (especially by new collectors) is "How much is this pin worth?" (maybe just after "Is my pin fake?") My hope was to create a shortcut for people to speed up the search.

Jenn and I have had many conversations around this and we definitely want P&P to serve the pin collector over the pin reseller. We absolutely recognize that resellers make up a large and important slice of the pin community but there are plenty of resources already that are optimized to cater to resellers. You collectors are definitely a different group altogether. You're passionate, knowledgable, opinionated, generous - It's inspiring that many of you are so quick to help each other find the ISO or grail needed and trade it for fair value. It feels like inflated prices and pin scalping are definitely on the rise. We have no desire to create tools to make scalping easier and we'd prefer to build systems that would neutralize it altogether. It's one of the reasons we built a trade platform instead of a selling platform (to be clear there are plenty of awesome resellers that are fair and don't price gouge even though they could).

All that to say that we're definitely not trying to contribute to the over-valued pin prices but I do think eBay sold prices can be a valuable resource for getting even a partial picture on popularity, scarcity, value and even fakes. Would it help to have a disclaimer or is there a post here on DPF that I could link to that goes into some of the nuance of eBay sold listings? I think that would be a better solution than simply ignoring that most are already considering sold listings as a valuable benchmark.

Again, thank you for the honest, thought-through feedback. It absolutely helps me build better stuff for the type of people I want to build better stuff for.
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You underestimate the influence of the pinandpop website.

If you are going to leave the eBay link up... if you are willing to add a disclaimer, that would be something.

Just because value trading has become the 'norm' doesn't mean pinandpop has to support the madness.
 
TheMickeyMouseRules said:
You underestimate the influence of the pinandpop website.

If you are going to leave the eBay link up... if you are willing to add a disclaimer, that would be something.

Just because value trading has become the 'norm' doesn't mean pinandpop has to support the madness.
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Agreed.
I find Ebay sale prices on any item to be arbitrary. Could be result of a bidding war, so many different prices. I appreciate how PnP is trying to get as much research to folks to see the value of a pin - but that's nothing I'd use or see value in.
 
hdtv267 said:
Agreed.
I find Ebay sale prices on any item to be arbitrary. Could be result of a bidding war, so many different prices. I appreciate how PnP is trying to get as much research to folks to see the value of a pin - but that's nothing I'd use or see value in.
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I prefer worthpoint because it offers more data, specifically more sales over a longer period of time (if available).
 
Mcgilligan said:
I prefer worthpoint because it offers more data, specifically more sales over a longer period of time (if available).
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Interesting, but I'd assume Worthpoint is scraping and getting some of their data from eBay.

@TheMickeyMouseRules & @hdtv267 how do you value your pins or what thought processes do you use to determine a trade is fair or not?
 
From what I understand worthpoint is a step up for values as it uses more datapoints. Most people can only get to the last 3 months of solds on eBay.

I also run into so many newer traders who think value trading is the only way to trade. Period. There is no other way. These new traders don't stand a chance to even consider other ways to figure out the value of their pin.

Trading criteria to help the traders trying to figure this out:
-Popularity of character/series/pin (ie, how many people want it versus how many are for trade)
-LE size
-Retail price
-How much I paid for a pin
-How many of the pin I have to trade
-Which pin(s) do I like more
-The kindness of the person I am trading with
-Age of the pin (mine and the pin on offer)
-Will I find the pin on offer easily again?

Note: old pins routinely do not have any value data on eBay. This means someone who has an older pin is at a disadvantage for value trading with eBay data. To the point that I think people with older pins do not value (perhaps are not allowed to value? - when it comes to worst resellers in this hobby) their pins high enough. The current value trading model benefits the recent releases and so it benefits the reselling community with their access to recent releases (using non-significant data points, via eBay sold listing.) There is so much manipulation and influencing on pin trading and eBay sold values are a big part of that manipulation.

Value trading is like the school bully. I want your lunch [ie, older pin], so I am going to beat you up to get it [ie, figure out a way to bully you into giving it up cheap]. This hobby needs to weed out the bully and their tactics.
 
TheMickeyMouseRules said:
Value trading is like the school bully. I want your lunch [ie, older pin], so I am going to beat you up to get it [ie, figure out a way to bully you into giving it up cheap]. This hobby needs to weed out the bully and their tactics.
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I would define Value Trading a little differently — to me it's simply using value as the primary determining factor or goal of a trade. This would probably be true anytime someone trades for a pin they are planning to turn around and either trade again or sell. This would be in contrast to maybe "Collection Trading" (?) where the goal of the trade is to add the pin to your collection or complete a series.

I don't see anything intrinsically bad about Value Trading (based on my definition) but I do agree that bullying, coercing, manipulating, misrepresenting a pin's value or authenticity, and scalping are all driving people away from the hobby.
 
I don’t think value trading and collection trading are two different things. I pretty much only trade for my collection and I do very much consider value as a factor in the trade (along with many of the factors Themickeymouserules mentioned). I simply don’t want to trade a pin that I could sell for $200 for one that I could buy for $20.

I do think having sale data in many ways helps “level the field” especially for newer traders that might not know what they have. And provides an objective data point for comparison on both sides. I do agree that the benefit increases when there are a greater number of sales (which also helps ensure the price is not being manipulated) so older pins are disadvantaged with this method and it is less useful for those.

I for one like the inclusion of the link and will be using it.
 
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