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Please always mark international trades as a gift!

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Please always mark international trades as a gift!
A $20 item seems very low to charge customs fees. What is the magical number to stay under?
 
echoharmony said:
Sorry, just feeling a bit ganged up on. Wish I hadn't said anything. My fault, don't mind me!
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Echo, im sorry you feel that way but they way I read the thread was everyone replying to the original post. We just tried to answer your question about would it be legal? Which was a very valid point.
 
:facepalm: Why are you feeling ganged up on?! Seriously what? I have not intended to upset anyone and I really can't see where you are being ganged up on?
 
Technically, Echo is right. It's illegal to declare a value on item that's less than WHAT WAS PAID for it. Doesn't matter if _you_ bought it at retail for $12.95, if someone paid you $500 for it, that's what you should, legally, declare...

Now, of course, it's perfectly justifiable that people request you don't do that because of the fees involved... :) And, if it's just an even trade, pin for pin, then you can always just put what you paid for it regardless of it's perceived value.

But, the real catch is that you can only file an insurance claim for the amount you declare on the form. If you aren't getting insurance, then it really doesn't matter, but if it's an expensive pin and you want to insure it (or if the postage includes insurance), you have to declare it for the amount you would want back from insurance if it gets lost. Doesn't matter if you paid for $500 worth of insurance, if you declare it's value at $12.95, $12.95 is all you will get back from the post office if it gets lost or damaged. That's where the risk lies...
 
It should be $20 or $25 on the label, but I'm not sure right now since I've not been to collect it yet. I'll update this tomorrow.
 
I've only sent internationally three times, but thankfully two of those times included sending comic books from Free Comic Book Day, so I listed those as worth zero.
 
about once every couple months one of these threads pops up.

When trading with someone from the states, please always tell them via PM or something what to do when sending the pins. Not all of them read the threads about how you guys get ripped off by your post office.

I might just do a how to guide for packing and shipping your international pins. Although I think someone else has done something similar.
 
rik1138 said:
Technically, Echo is right. It's illegal to declare a value on item that's less than WHAT WAS PAID for it. Doesn't matter if _you_ bought it at retail for $12.95, if someone paid you $500 for it, that's what you should, legally, declare...
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If it's a trade, though, then nobody is paying you for the pin you're sending.
 
rik1138 said:
Technically, Echo is right. It's illegal to declare a value on item that's less than WHAT WAS PAID for it. Doesn't matter if _you_ bought it at retail for $12.95, if someone paid you $500 for it, that's what you should, legally, declare...

Now, of course, it's perfectly justifiable that people request you don't do that because of the fees involved... :) And, if it's just an even trade, pin for pin, then you can always just put what you paid for it regardless of it's perceived value.

But, the real catch is that you can only file an insurance claim for the amount you declare on the form. If you aren't getting insurance, then it really doesn't matter, but if it's an expensive pin and you want to insure it (or if the postage includes insurance), you have to declare it for the amount you would want back from insurance if it gets lost. Doesn't matter if you paid for $500 worth of insurance, if you declare it's value at $12.95, $12.95 is all you will get back from the post office if it gets lost or damaged. That's where the risk lies...
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Exactly, and I think another DPF member got caught up in this awhile back.

As much as it is a bitter pill to swallow, customs fees are a part of doing business. Just as much as the VAT is. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. It may be unfair and unreasonable, but no one in the UK would ask someone to "nick" a pin because they don't agree with the VAT, right? Or just swipe a pin you can't afford from someone's bag. So why is evading customs okay, because you think you're less likely to get caught or because it's only the government?

Trades are one thing, sending $30 worth of stuff as $20 is another, and sending a real gift to a pin buddy is yet another. Like speeding, we all skirt around the rules now and then. But the "always mark under $20, and send as gift" when one person is sending high valued items is a whole nother kettle of fish, and I would hope that International traders would understand that others may not be willing to do something illegal for them, and not put that expectation on others in the first place.

And at the risk of getting political, customs duties are there to protect domestic business interests. They are meant to discourage you from buying overseas and encourage you to buy your country's products, through your local retailers. With hobbies like this, it creates a pain in the neck, because it's not like you have a domestic source. But laws like this are across the board, and it would get super messy if they tried to make it so things you should buy domestically get duties, and things that aren't available aren't. How would you even decide? The US has a more liberal free trade policy, which means we don't get nailed with customs fees at such a low level, but the US has also lost a ton of manufacturing jobs. So what's the better system, who knows? But it's a matter between people and their government, not the third party potentially being asked to lie on a customs declaration.
 
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Marking the package as gift is perfectly legitimate as stated. The sender can put the value of the item on the declaration however customs have the right to open the package to see what is inside and they can decide that the value declared is incorrect and give the item it's own value.

If they deem it to be over the limit they can slap a charge on it regardless of what is on the label. Also remeber that with merchandise they will include the shipping cost when working out the charge.

Its a grey area and also one that requires a lot luck. It depends who looks at it etc.
 
Psycho Pixie said:
about once every couple months one of these threads pops up.

When trading with someone from the states, please always tell them via PM or something what to do when sending the pins. Not all of them read the threads about how you guys get ripped off by your post office.

I might just do a how to guide for packing and shipping your international pins. Although I think someone else has done something similar.
Click to expand...

Stay tuned ...I'm putting something together about international shipping, customs, etc etc.
 
I agree with a lot of the differing opinions on here and want to thank those of you in the US who have very honestly explained your qualms about tweaking the value on Customs Declarations as it helps me as a UKer understand where you guys are coming from :)

I have to say that I can't afford to be stung by Customs Charges and so I always ask when I buy / even trade if the person can mark the value as less than $20 and mark as gift. Very rarely do I receive any international trades / purchases that are insured, so that isn't a factor for me.
However, folks in the US, your Proof of Posting type thing does the top part of the Customs Label form a part of that ie with the value on? Ours doesn't, so what is written on the Customs Label, has no bearing on the value of the item for insurance etc.

On the auction sites, I will not buy from sellers who will not mark as gift etc as I may be able to justify spending $50 (for example) on a grail but maybe not justify the additional $25 in Customs Fees.

One thing I did object though was I did a Pinpics trade, which included 1LE & 3HMs and my trading partner had marked the value at $40. A 5 mile round trip & the equivalent of $26 later I had my parcel - only to find the 3 HMs were scrappers :(

So what I'm trying to say I think...having taken up way too much space already...please do as Jazzy says if you can and help your international buddies out, especially if we take the time to ask you specially :)
 
I did a trade a few months back and the trader marked it as gift but put the value of the pin at $100! It was a $15 pin and with the added customs charge of £12 I could have bought the pin cheaper off eBay and I would have still had my £9.00 pin that I had also traded! The person I traded with said they thought it was for insurance purposes! Now when I do traded I politely ask them to mark it as a gift and no more than $20 a lot of eBay sellers though are not willing to mark the item as a gift.
 
vickichip7 said:
However, folks in the US, your Proof of Posting type thing does the top part of the Customs Label form a part of that ie with the value on? Ours doesn't, so what is written on the Customs Label, has no bearing on the value of the item for insurance etc.
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Yes, although the USPS uses two different types of customs labels. One which is completely white and the sender gets to keep a triplicate copy (to show where it is addressed) and one that is green & white. Both have areas to mark the value of the item.

If we want to get an item insured, the values have to match.
 
I agree with marking trades as gifts, but those of you saying that you ask eBay sellers to mark your purchases as gifts are breaking the law. If customs opened a package marked as gift and found a receipt showing it is actually a purchase, both you and the seller would face hefty fines. As some have already mentioned, the customs charges are just part of buying over seas and if you can't afford them, you shouldn't make the purchase.

As for trades, no money is changing hands so marking gift is perfectly acceptable, but as some people have said, you can still get hit with customs charges. I think the limit is higher, but it still applies at some point. (I believe it's £30/$30 for purchases, and £50/$50 for gifts, but I'm not certain).

If someone is marking the value at $100 for a $15 pin and claiming it's for insurance purposes, that sounds fraudulent to me. As in, they expect if it is lost to get $100 for it, even if they only paid $15? Not cool. I don't think that the current selling price on eBay would be enough evidence for the insurance to pay out on such an item for that amount anyway...

It's a tricky business, and it makes international trading slightly more difficult. I do agree that the Royal Mail handling fee is preposterous, it's an outrageously high fee for no real reason. Other than that, though, we have to abide by the law. Trades can be marked as gift, purchases definitely cannot. Please bear in mind that if you ask a seller to mark your purchase as gift, you are asking them to break the law, and if caught, could be facing paying hundreds and possibly putting their business in trouble. In the same vein, if they are fraudently marking the value as higher than it is, you need to get in touch with them to recover the fees that have been caused by their actions.

Not trying to :soapbox: here, but in the last few comments people have mentioned getting purchases marked as gifts and I just worry that they are putting themselves and the sellers at risk of getting in trouble. Please don't get mad at me though!
 
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Sorry but have to agree with madwild a trade is a gift a purchase is not however retail value not prceived value is what should be entered $25 seems to be the magi number in the uk

Jacqui
 
Value claimed on the customs form should be fair market value. If you just bought it, that's easy. If it's a trade of a pin that originally retailed for $10, but now regularly sells for $200, then $200 is the value you are required to claim.
 
jennisney said:
I hate the customs fees so much!!! They're so stupid -_- like what do they actually need the fees for?!
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Historically, customs fees and tariffs represented a government's primary source of income. For instance, in the US, customs fees paid for the Louisiana Purchase, Oregon, Florida, Alaska,the Transcontinental Railroad, the Military Academies and Washington DC, itself. In modern times, they have given way to Income and Sales Taxes. But they still go into the funds to run the country. So Defense, Social Services, Health Care, Education, and everything else governments do that we tend to take for granted.
 
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