Your Thoughts Needed on Threads/Drama

[melanium]

I mean, maybe only allow wanted post where people are straight out asking for help, rather than people posting pre-sales? That's a tough one and may just be where people need to be more adult about the matter and be civil whether they are holding a pre-sale or responding to one.

I agree with this- if anything is done away with (pre-sale threads, etc), if we can still post "Wanted" threads, that would be my vote. I'm in FL, so my only option to get anything from DSF is to ask for help. And as Story said, even if I can't afford what people are asking, to be able to at least put a request out there and see how it goes, is nice.

--Melanie

 

[BugCatcherJenna]

Exactly! I have always found it slightly ironic that we post ice cream to deal with problems stemming from the Disney Soda Fountain.

It is pretty ironic, isn't it? HAHA

 

[Robins Hood]

As much as I agree with the drama post and what not, are we are going to comply with a forum of Censorship? I see it more and more now and even tho I do feel some things get out of hand I would rather a forum of non-censorship. First we ban drama threads and pre-sale. Whats next? Ban anything on the forum that has to do with race? How about we ban the post that post bombings of the Boston Marathon cause it just feeds into the terrorist who did it. I don't come to this forum to feel bad about the world, I come here to pin trade and discuss my hobby with others. It is a slippery slope and seeing how threads are being removed and more and more bans are being implied now, where does it stop? Whats to say if you did ban Presales people wont sell their time waiting in line? Will you than ban those? If so, what will and will not be allowed to be sold or bought on this forum?

 

[Shannon]

I agree but I feel that rather than peanalise everyone and take away useful threads such as releases, we should moderate ourselves and take responsibility for what we choose to type and think about if what we are saying would hurt somebody and if infact we need to post it at all I think we create the drama, not the thread title.

While AWESOME in theory, the history of human nature proves that a lot of people have absolutely no ability to moderate themselves...

 

[Story]

Pre-Trade threads I can see as being different as the person is willing to purchase said item and no transaction is made until both parties have their items in hand... Much different in my opinion... Can this cause hype, perhaps but less than an actual price on a pin would and this can be done via PM...

Very true. Here's a thought that just popped in my head (Yeah it happens for Story sometimes :lol - how about if someone makes a pre-sale, they do not ask for the money until the item is in hand.... or if they do ask for the money up front, it is only tax/retail/shipping, and then a set "for my time" amount after the pins are in hand?

^ Not saying this should be a set rule or anything because obviously the mods can't police how a pre-sale is done. But it's just a thought for if/when people choose to handle presales, maybe they can consider that someone doesn't want hecka amount of money being tied up just to get a PM the following day saying "didn't make it".

 

[AgentOfAnarchy]

While AWESOME in theory, the history of human nature proves that a lot of people have absolutely no ability to moderate themselves...

I compleately agree but then they as individuals should recieve bans rather than blanket banning everything that may cause drauma - because if thats the case you might aswell remove every thread ever.



... and my ability to use youtube because meg / hades videos make me cry.

 

[Shannon]

I compleately agree but then they as individuals should recieve bans rather than blanket banning everything that may cause drauma - because if thats the case you might aswell remove every thread ever.

Point taken. I think the issue is also not nearly enough mods for the boards. People that have been inflammatory are still posting away with no repercussions, while other people are getting in trouble for lesser crimes, so to speak. There needs to be even "punishment" for lack of a better word across the board

 

[Lamorak]

In my mind, any pre-sale is screaming, "Buyer beware!". I never would hand over money to anyone who is not willing to front their own money. People who front their own money end up creating sale or trade threads and are much more trustworthy than the ones who are taking risks with someone else's money. It should be a golden rule and others shouldn't fuel the bad behavior by giving money, up front, for pre-sale threads.

 

[AgentOfAnarchy]

Point taken. I think the issue is also not nearly enough mods for the boards. People that have been inflammatory are still posting away with no repercussions, while other people are getting in trouble for lesser crimes, so to speak. There needs to be even "punishment" for lack of a better word across the board

That's a good point, it must be a lot of work. Maybe more mods are needed.

 

[imp]

I lean toward getting rid of the pre-sale threads but, since they don't affect me either way, my opinion on this probably isn't that relevant. At the very least, DPF should require that payment be as a 'purchase' rather than as 'gift', to address the issues raised by Moe. (I'd like to see this applied to all sales on the forum, but that should probably be addressed in a separate thread.)

As for the 'what time are you lining up?' threads, I don't see the point in eliminating them. Yes, they may make people more anxious about getting the pins, but if that information isn't posted here it will be somewhere else. I think the key to dealing with the drama is to have stiffer infractions for certain behaviour...and more mods so that threads can be shut down more quickly when they get out of hand (our beleaguered mods seem to be under the astonishing delusion that they are entitled to have lives outside DPF )

 

[Story]

I agree with this- if anything is done away with (pre-sale threads, etc), if we can still post "Wanted" threads, that would be my vote. I'm in FL, so my only option to get anything from DSF is to ask for help. And as Story said, even if I can't afford what people are asking, to be able to at least put a request out there and see how it goes, is nice.

--Melanie

Exactly! Because at the end of the day, we still like to have that glimmer of chance that we might be able to get the pretty metal that catches our eye! ^.^

 

[hopemax]

I agree but I feel that rather than peanalise everyone and take away useful threads such as releases, we should moderate ourselves and take responsibility for what we choose to type and think about if what we are saying would hurt somebody and if infact we need to post it at all I think we create the drama, not the thread title.

Yep...thinking about the unnecessary "joke" threads and "joke" posts. As an out-of-stater, I depend on the release threads for accurate information. And people posting outrageous, inaccurate rumors about surprise pins, number of people in line, and all the other ridiculous stuff that gets posted under the banner of "relax, it's just a joke," does neither the site or them any favors.

Pre-sales are another matter, and this is an area where I think the mods and admins need to get together and create a set of rules concerning them, for the protection of members. For instance, I think "gift" payments should be banned definitely regarding pre-sales (actually, I think they should be banned for all sales) and the expectation that any failed pre-sales need to have money refunded in 24 hours or whatever. Failure to refund in a specified timeframe should result in negative feedback (that does not get removed when payment is actually refunded), with bannings as an option for repeat offenders.

Basically, in lieu of people policing themselves, the site needs a clear code of conduct with rules and penalties clearly spelled out, so when a situation arises there's a swift and easy way for the mods to handle it, without people trying to talk their way out of it. Right now, there isn't a lot of incentive for people to behave because there are few real consequences for misbehavior.

 

[Goofy_Moe]

I agree but I feel that rather than peanalise everyone and take away useful threads such as releases, we should moderate ourselves and take responsibility for what we choose to type and think about if what we are saying would hurt somebody and if infact we need to post it at all I think we create the drama, not the thread title.

I also agree with you and wish this would happen...

 

[Ozzie1988]

I am with you Moe; this site has made me a sad panda lately and its feeling less like a community and more like high school.

1) I would like threads like "live from" go and never posted again.

2) Presales with this, it seems that lately they are not really working and just making things worst. But to be fair everyone knows the risk of the buy. It’s the same with bidding on a pin with a pin that is not out yet. Some people are ok with it and some say no.

3) Second accounts, this just has to stop. Mods should just ban users that do this both the fake account and there real one. In all the IP address if it could be done.

4) Harassment should not be tolerated I would like to see stricter mods banning and giving points for harassing other users. Ether by jabs or straight out attracts. No matter what someone dose an attack is never justified

 

[Story]

Yep...thinking about the unnecessary "joke" threads and "joke" posts. As an out-of-stater, I depend on the release threads for accurate information. And people posting outrageous, inaccurate rumors about surprise pins, number of people in line, and all the other ridiculous stuff that gets posted under the banner of "relax, it's just a joke," does neither the site or them any favors.

Oh my goodness, this so much!!! I seriously don't even bother trying to get real information from releases anymore, which is disappointing because as someone out-of-town, it would be fun to be somewhat in the know. But as it stands there are so many 'jokes' and 'rumors' that we can't even take those threads seriously anymore for what's really going on.

 

[AgentOfAnarchy]

3) Second accounts, this just has to stop. Mods should just ban users that do this both the fake account and there real one. In all the IP address if it could be done.

I agree provided it is a fake account, obviously some people have more that 1 family member on dpf, there is no way I am sharing an account with someone who does not collect hercules, talk about besmerching my name xD

4) Harassment should not be tolerated I would like to see stricter mods banning and giving points for harassing other users. Ether by jabs or straight out attracts. No matter what someone dose an attack is never justified

Agree compleately.

 

[bombardon3]

I'm torn on presale threads. They do increase hype and there have been cases where the person said they couldn't get them and then didn't refund the money promptly or refunded and sold them at a higher price. At the same time, they do help people out of the area get pins. So personally I think they should stay but maybe be moved onto a sub forum with a higher post count requirement than the regular sales thread.

As for drama threads, it seems to me like there are people who create drama on a perfectly appropriate thread just to see the thread get closed down. We went through what, 4-5 threads on the Valentines Day chocolate boxes? I have spoken to mods about this in chat and they're working to delete offending comments in the future instead of closing the entire thread. I think that is fair as this is a pin forum and pin release threads and discussion should be encouraged and not shut down just because of a few people.

Another topic that has come up in the chat room has been better enforcement of infractions. The mods try their best but they can't catch every curse word, personal attack, threat, etc. The best thing to do when you see something like that, be it against yourself or a friend, is to click the report button. That should be the first thing you do before you post a comeback, try to defend your friend, or anything else that just adds to the drama.

 

[Jazzy B Bunny]

What does harrasing consist of? Hopefully I've not been doing that, in regards to a certain thread here I don't mean to, if I have!

 

[markheardjr]

I fully understand your point on being overmoderated, and also why should the MODs even need to worry about it... But the truth is that some people will continue to act like children and upset the ones who are not...

I see a need to know as a community what new releases are coming out and those are still necessary... perhaps only once a month when the flyer is released, but the threads with the titles... "What time will you be..." and "Live at..." are more the ones I see a concern with...

Please know that this is coming to you from one of the main people involved in trying to keep things calm and orderly in a mature mannor... But trust me when I say that not all involved can be mature and it ruins it for the others who are...

The Live at and what time threads used to not be so much drama. This new breed of reseller/trader (I say both because most are both now) seem to be willing to do whatever it takes. I don't think the drama is going to leave. There are too many people that have started this hobby in the last year that have almost no interest in the hobby other than to either make money or show off. Pin trading was easier 18 months ago. DSF pins almost never went to triple digits, even the most insane releases would only be a 12 hours sleep over. Now there are too many willing to stay 1-2 days for pins. DSF is the reason. Is it their fault? No. I say it's Disneyshopping.com and pure human greediness fault. DSF pins have skyrocketed due to the lack of other good quality low LE edition pins. I think we can all agree to that. But the issue is as these pins have elevated in desirability, they have garnered attention from far beyond just the pin community.

It started with pin traders bringing family members to trade/sell extras. Word spread, Then it was bring friends. Then those friends brought more friends. As prices went up, more people were told "You should come, you can make some money." We always had resellers and presellers, but they were limited to 3 or 4 smaller groups. Now we have those same groups plus more that bring people in droves.

The "Live At" threads are great for people out of SoCal. I'm sure they love to feel included. But I agree they create paranoia. The issue though, is that without them, the cliques out there will just text each other and those with many friends will find out info first. Information about releases and line counts has become valuable and sought after. The_Other_Steve sort of leveled the playing field by posting his info. So on one hand they create paranoia but on the other, if they weren't posted, many people would show up too late and never get a spot. Hence why DSF needs to create a better system for people to show up at said time and have a chance. The resellers are mad at everyone in the "late" line that came at the time posted but honestly, the resellers are the reason the rules had to change. They've brought too many shady money hungry people and it's blown out of control.

DSF from now on should just say, pins on sale at 9am, come at 7am. Do the random wristband thing and go. No reason for campouts anymore. I'd wager they are going to lose long term customers and just attract ruffians. They need to find a happy balance to appease both these people that just want to exploit our hobby and also those that are in the hobby for the sake of pin collecting and trading. Every pin for the last year has sold out eventually except for the TinkerBell fairies. They have no reason to be afraid of making everyone come the morning of and making enough to satisfy all. They can up their edition sizes. Make them LE500's and have it 2 per person. That lets 100 extra people get them and the actual pin TRADERS will have more pins to trade and then less people will buy them aftermarket. The prices will drop a little, enough drop to not create rage infused resellers whining about lost profits, but enough so that a few will lose interest and hype will slow down. The pins will still sell out, an LE500 DSF pin is going to still be desirable. It will still be more desirable than DSF pins were before Disneyshopping went down. So DSF shouldn't be worried as long as they keep making great pins. The fairies aren't in the sale bin because they don't have anything else for the racks to sell. But even at $4 or $5 they are gonna make money. So just make more pins, if you make them, they will come!!!

 

[markheardjr]

The majority of pre-sales are for those who cannot afford to fund their own purchases... Why risk your money to someone who has none???

+1

 

[YoSoyAhPuch]

People like to talk pins, and it would be hard to end "upcoming releases" threads. It's not the threads that cause the issues, its the fact that sometimes we, as DPF members, cannot control ourselves, and that's when issues arise. It's fun to discuss an upcoming release. Heck, half the time, those threads are how I find out what pins are coming out when!

As for pre-sale threads, I'm split on it. Everyone has the right to pre-sell anything, as there are no rules preventing it. Free market and all But here's the thing. These pre-sale threads also cause a lot of problems. The biggest one being that they set up a worth before they're even released! A pin shouldn't go up in price before it even comes out! To keep or not to keep these pre-sales in the forum. If the mods were to do this, would it be considered a kind of censorship? In all honestly, I'd be happy if they were not allowed, but that's just my opinion, and may not be fair to everyone on the forum.

Perhaps if this issue was put to a vote? That way its a forum decision set up by members of the forum. The people who make the forum what it is.

 

[Combatdre]

Just a thought....

why don't we all as a pin trading community come together, sign a pledge stating that we are not buying pins at pre-sale prices; doing so will eliminate unnecessary drama, hype, overload on prices and mostly people who make cash out of scalping us! I remember about a year ago, this was not an issue. Then people started camping out, hyping pins, outsiders found out and the entire family's and groups started doing it for profit. By cutting off the pre sales, the hypes will dwindle and eventually we will go back to being the trading community we once were... Just a thought...

 

[Ivan the Great]

No matter what someone dose an attack is never justified

I am from the opposite side of the fence on this. You attack me and I will come back at you. Some people only get the point when you throw it back into their face.

 

[Ivan the Great]

Just a thought....

why don't we all as a pin trading community come together, sign a pledge stating that we are not buying pins at pre-sale prices; doing so will eliminate unnecessary drama, hype, overload on prices and mostly people who make cash out of scalping us! I remember about a year ago, this was not an issue. Then people started camping out, hyping pins, outsiders found out and the entire family's and groups started doing it for profit. By cutting off the pre sales, the hypes will dwindle and eventually we will go back to being the trading community we once were... Just a thought...

I for one will not be doing that. IF a pin comes out that I want and someone here is pre-selling and the price is right I will buy it. I would rather buy from someone here than from someone on eBay.

 

[Story]

3) Second accounts, this just has to stop. Mods should just ban users that do this both the fake account and there real one. In all the IP address if it could be done.

This one really bothers me. Especially because you can never be sure if you are dealing with someone new or someone who is hiding behind a new name. It's silly, cowardly, and adds to the distrust and drama.

Another topic that has come up in the chat room has been better enforcement of infractions. The mods try their best but they can't catch every curse word, personal attack, threat, etc. The best thing to do when you see something like that, be it against yourself or a friend, is to click the report button. That should be the first thing you do before you post a comeback, try to defend your friend, or anything else that just adds to the drama.

I have definitely been trying to just report things rather than respond. I always feel bad tho when I think I'm reporting too much. I don't want to bug the mods or add more to their plate than they already have =>

What does harrasing consist of? Hopefully I've not been doing that, in regards to a certain thread here I don't mean to, if I have!

If it's the unresolved problem you are having concerning a sale, that in my opinion is not harassing. That is simply trying to get what is owed to you, and I really hope everything works out for you and the others involved!! :hug: