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So you say you would never buy scrappers

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So you say you would never buy scrappers
iamdisneydan said:
I am not saying if you live near a park you buy scrappers, its just by doing some homework, the majority of the people buying these lots are typically close to the park. I never said all, mostly. Of course many people will buy these lots for when they visit one of the parks. As always, I have to be more defined or are you not reading it as written. I never said all, I said most.....
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This is what you said:
"AND ON A SPECIAL NOTE, NOTICE MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER BOUGHT SCRAPPER ARE NOT CLOSE TO THE PARK AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE NOWHERE TO TRADE THEM."

How can you know who never bought scrappers unless they tell you so? Therefore, I read it as though you were referring to the people that had responded in this thread saying they had never purchased a scrapper lot. If that's not what you are referring to, you really have no backing for that statement.

You can't fault people for misinterpreting your points if you don't take the time and care to convey them properly.
 
erudolf said:
This is what you said:
"AND ON A SPECIAL NOTE, NOTICE MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER BOUGHT SCRAPPER ARE NOT CLOSE TO THE PARK AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE NOWHERE TO TRADE THEM."

How can you know who never bought scrappers unless they tell you so? Therefore, I read it as though you were referring to the people that had responded in this thread saying they had never purchased a scrapper lot. If that's not what you are referring to, you really have no backing for that statement.

You can't fault people for misinterpreting your points if you don't take the time and care to convey them properly.
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DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ AND UNDERSTAND WHAT SOMEONE IS WRITING!? It does not say EVERYONE. It says, "notice that most people" You will try to find fault in anything I say. It is very clear. maybe you have the problem. Most of the people refer to the people whi have purchased from eBay. Read the entire post I wrote. Not just the parts you want.

If you really wanted, you can take certain words from my post and it could say whatever you want. This is about people not coming clean, how to see who and where people are from who make some of the purchases. I never said everyone and if you look at the people who have their state or city listed, you will notice that few live in states far from the parks and most are local.

So maybe you should read a bit closer and realize I am referring to eBay. I made it very clear in my original post. Do I need to re-quote it in every post. I never said I know who never bought scrappers. And maybe everyone who did not buy scrappers did tell me. HAH!

I asked everyone in the nation with exception to a few hundred people and they are the ones reading this post so they dont count. I asked everyone else...............
 
Yeah, this is a good topic.

As far as legal vs. ethical; I know that at least in my state (and federal law) it IS against the law to knowingly (emphasize knowingly) possess, sell, or distribute counterfeited goods. Why do you think that guy just got arrested? He didn't actually sit there at a factory and carve out pins by hand. He purchased them (like you can on ebay, he was just a little more direct) knowing they were fakes and distributed them (sold them) to other people (like new traders or the ones in question) passing them off as real pins. Therefore, those individuals in question that Dan is curious about are in fact actually breaking the law because they KNOW they are buying and distributing counterfeit goods. It is NOT an ethical issue in any way. It might seem like it because it isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world to enforce; it would be like trying to give everyone a $1000 ticket for littering every time someone spits out gum in the street. But just because it is obscure or impossible to enforce does not make it any more legal than what the people making the fakes are doing. Knowingly buying a counterfeit item and passing it off as real is ILLEGAL whether it is 1 or 100,000. End of story.

There are so many legit cheap ways to purchase real pins that these guys should be driven out of business, and shame on those that knowingly trade fakes to CMs. If I find a new trader in the park that has traded all their new pins for fakes I give them a real pin to compare with cast member pins before making the trade. You can find real pins to trade for four dollars or less. Some of the pins are old piece of history pins, LE's, Villains, canceled projects, mystery pins, pin on pin, hinged and artist easels to name what I have seen in the past. I even have cell numbers and email's of pin traders that I contact when I see some good deals at the store and I purchase pins on their behalf. PM me if you want to be added to my list; I am more than happy to help. Pins are as good as money to me (yes I do accept paypal also). I would trade you several discount rack pins for one pin no problem.

I frequent Disney discount outlets like:

Disney's Character Warehouse
243 Orangefair Mall
Fullerton, CA 92832
(714) 870-9363

Ontario Mills Mall Disney Store
1 Mills Circle, Suite One
Ontario, CA 91764
(909) 484-8300

I also do not believe in punishing kids for having fake pins. If they come to my table with pins in baggies I let them trade off my own personal "kid lanyard" and not out of my collection. If they are interested or just starting out I will educate them about fake pins. Many adults get offended if you tell them their pins are counterfeits and do not want to hear it; no one wants to hear that their metaphorical diamond ring they got on discount is CZ. They tell me how the pin is real becuase they got it off of a cast member and such. My response is usually that I can trade with them for pins they have purchased out of the store and that usually ends the debate.

Bottom line; obviously not ALL the people that trade that live near the parks have bought these, but there are plenty that have. Those that made an honest mistake can be forgiven. We bought several sets of 20 and 50 for like 12 bucks a pop, then got laughed at in the park with a book full of trash. Actually, looking up what a fake is lead me to this website to begin with. Dan's post on fakes is the first DPF thread I ever read. So, live and learn, and you might actually get some damn good friends as well as a little wisdom out of the experience. But, and I mean a big, huge, steaming BUT, there is no excuse for those that do this as a business. I met a family that made a hell of a profit on this; tell innocent naive people they have a fake, trade them 2-3 fakes for their one pin out of "pity" and say they are "doing them a favor", and then go trade those for real pins off of CMs. Now, I know people that do it every once in a while to be nice to the naive, but these people... it was their business. I sat there and watched them one day. It was a mom and like 5 kids. When they got there, I looked through their stuff and they had maybe a hundred pins, mostly rack and not a single one special. I looked again several hours later and they had at least 300; the book that started half full was now full of fakes, and they were just dumping the ones they were getting into a big shopping bag. I heard one of the kids say to the mom "look mom, I got five fakes out of that guy for one pin!" The mom then sent that kid out to scour real pins for them off of CMs. This was going on all day, and who knows how many people they did this to. This whole family was actually running a scam in the park. Real, honest pity is one thing, but not what they were doing. They were doing it knowingly and for profit. Just remember, if you do this, or buy them off the bay knowing what they are and trade them in the park anyway, you ARE breaking the law.

~Geoff

PS Magnet test: I did the same thing; took a powerful magnet into the park and pulled it across several hundred pins. Less than half are magnetic. Magnets prove NOTHING.

bellebeast.jpg
 
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iamdisneydan said:
DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ AND UNDERSTAND WHAT SOMEONE IS WRITING!? It does not say EVERYONE. It says, "notice that most people" You will try to find fault in anything I say. It is very clear. maybe you have the problem. Most of the people refer to the people whi have purchased from eBay. Read the entire post I wrote. Not just the parts you want.

If you really wanted, you can take certain words from my post and it could say whatever you want. This is about people not coming clean, how to see who and where people are from who make some of the purchases. I never said everyone and if you look at the people who have their state or city listed, you will notice that few live in states far from the parks and most are local.

So maybe you should read a bit closer and realize I am referring to eBay. I made it very clear in my original post. Do I need to re-quote it in every post. I never said I know who never bought scrappers. And maybe everyone who did not buy scrappers did tell me. HAH!

I asked everyone in the nation with exception to a few hundred people and they are the ones reading this post so they dont count. I asked everyone else...............
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Wow. I was the one defending your post in the first place because it was not coming off very well to others and now you attack me for disagreeing with one part of what you wrote? I'm sorry, but your behavior is ridiculous. To me, you are coming off as very angry and rude.

Please explain to me how you have any basis for saying that "MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER BOUGHT SCRAPPER ARE NOT CLOSE TO THE PARK"??? It makes absolutely no sense. You have no way of knowing that! Just because you see a lot of people located near the parks buy scrapper lots on ebay doesn't mean that most of the people that have never bought them don't live near the park. You are drawing a conclusion with absolutely nothing to back it up. If you had said, "notice that most of the people buying scrapper lots are near the park" then that would have made sense. I'm now assuming that is what you were getting at even though that is not what you said at all.

Yes, I can read what people write, and it was written poorly. Your posts are costantly full of loose ends and unsupported claims and now you get angry because someone doesn't agree with what you wrote? I've always tried giving you the benefit of the doubt and have taken the off-center things you have said with a grain of salt, but I'm done.

I wasn't going to say anything about this, but if I'm going to be accused of picking apart your post I might as well do so. In your first post you said:

iamdisneydan said:
I have never gotten a scrapper in trade from someone on DPF nor have I ever traded one, but I know they buy them.
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That was an outright lie and you know it. You, the self-proclaimed scrapper expert, traded ME a scrapper (actually two but I I only told you about the one because I didn't notice the second one until later and just let it go). So if you want to climb up on your high horse and call people out then perhaps you should start with yourself.
 
Geoff, based on your legal analysis (which sounds plausible to me), I hope that those who are buying crap and trading it out at the parks in the name of profit get the message and stop doing so.

Personally, I would like those people exposed. I would prefer not to trade with hypocrites, even if they are trading the real stuff.
 
erudolf said:
Wow. I was the one defending your post in the first place because it was not coming off very well to others and now you attack me for disagreeing with one part of what you wrote? I'm sorry, but your behavior is ridiculous. To me, you are coming off as very angry and rude.

Please explain to me how you have any basis for saying that "MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER BOUGHT SCRAPPER ARE NOT CLOSE TO THE PARK"??? It makes absolutely no sense. You have no way of knowing that! Just because you see a lot of people located near the parks buy scrapper lots on ebay doesn't mean that most of the people that have never bought them don't live near the park. You are drawing a conclusion with absolutely nothing to back it up. If you had said, "notice that most of the people buying scrapper lots are near the park" then that would have made sense. I'm now assuming that is what you were getting at even though that is not what you said at all.

Yes, I can read what people write, and it was written poorly. Your posts are costantly full of loose ends and unsupported claims and now you get angry because someone doesn't agree with what you wrote? I've always tried giving you the benefit of the doubt and have taken the off-center things you have said with a grain of salt, but I'm done.

I wasn't going to say anything about this, but if I'm going to be accused of picking apart your post I might as well do so. In your first post you said:




That was an outright lie and you know it. You, the self-proclaimed scrapper expert, traded ME a scrapper (actually two but I I only told you about the one because I didn't notice the second one until later and just let it go). So if you want to climb up on your high horse and call people out then perhaps you should start with yourself.
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Wow, u have a lot of good points. But Danny as well, however from a standar point of view, Danny writing seems angry and attacking. I do have to agree with that. But wow, didn't see that coming.
 
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I completely agree with the person that said they don't want to be trading with people who are knowingly taking scrapped pins and trading them for the real deal, only to turn around and sell and/or trade the real pins. It's completely unethical and I think one of the reasons some people get fed up and leave trading. It is frustrating to spend your hard earned money on real pins only to realize that what you just got in return off a cast member's lanyard is crap.

As for the tone of all the other messages, I simply think Dan was trying to bring to light that this mess happens. There are people (probably some on this board) that are doing exactly what he suspects: buying crap and trading it for good stuff. As for selling stuff higher than original retail, etc. it's up to the buyer to choose if they want to pay it or not. I don't think it makes someone a bad person for trying to get more than retail, but the market will determine whether than can get it or not based on if the item actually sells. I know enough of the majority of the people on this board: if I really need a pin for my collection, there is always someone willing to help me get it at cost.
 
erudolf said:
That was an outright lie and you know it. You, the self-proclaimed scrapper expert, traded ME a scrapper (actually two but I I only told you about the one because I didn't notice the second one until later and just let it go). So if you want to climb up on your high horse and call people out then perhaps you should start with yourself.
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OH SNAP!! ::throws his bag of popcorn in the microwave::

iamdisneydan said:
This is to all the seasoned traders who have that dirty little secret. Gee, maybe I should call them out.............

Did I make ya nervous? You know who you are!
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DOOOO ITTTTTT!!!!!!!
 
don't even investigate people! Just call people out! Random names! Also, when this list is made, title the list "FARTS"
 
I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to bring people together who share a love for Disney pins.

Some of the forum members help each other out (like everyone is trying to help Laramie get her HG right now) by trading HTF pins.

For most of us who live away from the parks, holding onto those shiny pins is like holding on to a part of Disney magic for the times we can't be in the parks.

This thread is neither helpful nor educative. On the contrary, it is causing a really un-needed stir and unfortunately started to take a personal turn.

Maybe it is time for the mods to step in, hmmmmm?
 
Here's my 2 cents.

1) Scrappers are too expensive for me.
Nearly every pin I have traded onto a lanyard in the past 1.5 years has cost me $1 or less. I have access to cast stores and sales and with that comes very very cheap pins. I bought a ton of pins for $1 (including booster sets at Comp D last Fri for $1 per pin). Last year, I bought hundreds of pins (on original cards)direct from Disney for $.49 each! Even when I was new to trading I bought a bunch of traders from Salsa sales at WDW for 75% off sticker price. So, for me at least, scrapper lots (with ebay shipping and fees) are too expensive for my tastes.

2) I've knowingly traded for possible scrappers off lanyards. There's been a few HM sets (like the old WDW monorails) that I've tried to complete. If it's one I need, I'll trade for it even though its highly likely to be a scrapper. I put the pin in my collection and move on. For some of lower want and highly scrapped series, it's not worth the effort or money to find the perfect pin.

3) I mainly collect non scrapped pins. Aside from a couple HMs, I only trade for pins that don't have scrapped version. This rules out vinylmations, HMs, PT52's and other highly scrapped series. If none are scrapped, I don't have to worry about checking everything.
 
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Merryweather said:
I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to bring people together who share a love for Disney pins.

Some of the forum members help each other out (like everyone is trying to help Laramie get her HG right now) by trading HTF pins.

For most of us who live away from the parks, holding onto those shiny pins is like holding on to a part of Disney magic for the times we can't be in the parks.

This thread is neither helpful nor educative. On the contrary, it is causing a really un-needed stir and unfortunately started to take a personal turn.

Maybe it is time for the mods to step in, hmmmmm?
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For most issues with trading and personal matters, I'd totally agree with this. But for people who knowingly buy scrappers for cheap to try and get real pins is what's slowly ruining pin trading all together and are doing something that is illegal that, in the end, screws with the community as a whole.
 
Melonballer said:
SSSSSHHH! Posts like that may get you added to "the list" :rolleyes:
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lol

Funny thing about the list: I've dealt with some people on it and have been more than happy with the trade. I've also dealt with some traders that are well regarded that should be added to it. :wiggle:
 
When we first started trading pins at the park we bought a few lots on eBay (probably 300 pins). Guess who advised us to do so??...a cast member. We started taking our girls to dland 4 years ago. I saw everybody trading pins with cast members and thought this would be fun and great for our girls. I asked a cm what it was about. She gave me all of the info about how it works and told me " I think we charge too much for pins. Next time, before you come, go on eBay and you can get pins for $1-$2 each instead. "
 
Merryweather said:
I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to bring people together who share a love for Disney pins.
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You're 100% right with this! The goal of DPF is to create one big happy family! Tue thing with happy families, you get the good, the bad, and the ugly. Every family has their quarrels and disputes, and it wouldn't be healthy if we weren't allowed to talk about stuff like this *cough*Diz*cough*

Sure, we like to help each other out. But we will need to release some steam too.

Every family has the crazy Uncle!

*Posted from phone* Please excuse errors.
 
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Merryweather said:
I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to bring people together who share a love for Disney pins.

Some of the forum members help each other out (like everyone is trying to help Laramie get her HG right now) by trading HTF pins.

For most of us who live away from the parks, holding onto those shiny pins is like holding on to a part of Disney magic for the times we can't be in the parks.

This thread is neither helpful nor educative. On the contrary, it is causing a really un-needed stir and unfortunately started to take a personal turn.

Maybe it is time for the mods to step in, hmmmmm?
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. calling people out is not ethical either, is not your business to do so, plus u can accuse of somebody doing so, but u can't prove it till your actually see the person with a bag of scrappers at the park trading them. i just think immature people(which is weird, because most people here are full grown ups) who are acting like little kids causing drama, have taken this subject in a complete different direction than it should had taken. this was to discuss the fact that some people are doing this, and is unethical, but not a crime, however calling these people out makes u better than them? IDK, but i don't think so. i really lost respect for some people here with this subject, because some people really showed me how much unnecessary drama they can cause and how immature can they be.
 
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